שתי תורות?!
הדף מאת: אליזבט גולדוין / המדרשה באורנים
דף לימוד זה עוסק בשאלות הראשוניות והבסיסיות: מה זה בכלל תורה שבעל פה ומדוע לעסוק בה? מכיוון שבחינוך הממלכתי היום לא לומדים בכלל תורה שבעל פה, אלא מלמדים מקרא כאילו זו היהדות כולה - הרי שכאשר ניגשים לקבוצה של בוגרי חינוך זה, עולות השאלות הללו בכל חריפותן.
דיון
מה זה בכלל 'תורה שבעל פה' ומדוע לעסוק בה?

לשם מה ללמוד דברי אנשים שנכתבו לפני כל כך הרבה זמן ושכל כך קשה להבינם?

איך זה קשור אלינו בכלל?

אם השאלות האלה מטרידות אתכם, ייתכן שתמצאו להן התחלה של מענה בלימוד זה.

נעיין לאט בשני סיפורים קצרים שעוסקים בשאלות הללו, בדרכם המיוחדת.
תנו רבנן: [=שנו חכמים] מעשה בנכרי אחד שבא לפני שמאי.

אמר לו: כמה תורות יש לכם?
The Sages taught: There was an incident involving one gentile who came before Shammai. The gentile said to Shammai: How many Torahs do you have? He said to him: Two, the Written Torah and the Oral Torah. The gentile said to him: With regard to the Written Torah, I believe you, but with regard to the Oral Torah, I do not believe you. Convert me on condition that you will teach me only the Written Torah. Shammai scolded him and cast him out with reprimand. The same gentile came before Hillel, who converted him and began teaching him Torah. On the first day, he showed him the letters of the alphabet and said to him: Alef, bet, gimmel, dalet. The next day he reversed the order of the letters and told him that an alef is a tav and so on. The convert said to him: But yesterday you did not tell me that. Hillel said to him: You see that it is impossible to learn what is written without relying on an oral tradition. Didn’t you rely on me? Therefore, you should also rely on me with regard to the matter of the Oral Torah, and accept the interpretations that it contains.
דיון
איזו מין שאלה זו?

מה דעתך, כמה תורות יש?

האם יש לעובדת היות השואל "נוכרי", כלומר לא יהודי, חשיבות לעצם השאלה? מדוע?
אמר לו: שתים - תורה שבכתב ותורה שבעל פה.

אמר לו: שבכתב אני מאמינך, ושבעל פה איני מאמינך.

גיירני על מנת שתלמדני תורה שבכתב.
The Sages taught: There was an incident involving one gentile who came before Shammai. The gentile said to Shammai: How many Torahs do you have? He said to him: Two, the Written Torah and the Oral Torah. The gentile said to him: With regard to the Written Torah, I believe you, but with regard to the Oral Torah, I do not believe you. Convert me on condition that you will teach me only the Written Torah. Shammai scolded him and cast him out with reprimand. The same gentile came before Hillel, who converted him and began teaching him Torah. On the first day, he showed him the letters of the alphabet and said to him: Alef, bet, gimmel, dalet. The next day he reversed the order of the letters and told him that an alef is a tav and so on. The convert said to him: But yesterday you did not tell me that. Hillel said to him: You see that it is impossible to learn what is written without relying on an oral tradition. Didn’t you rely on me? Therefore, you should also rely on me with regard to the matter of the Oral Torah, and accept the interpretations that it contains.
דיון
האם התשובה של שמאי מפתיעה אותך?

האם את/ה מזדהה עם עמדת "הנוכרי"?

איך אפשר בכלל להשוות בין התורה שבכתב, שהיא אלוהית, לתורה שבעל פה שנוצרה על ידי בני אדם?

האם את/ה מאמינ/ה שהתורה שבכתב אלוהית? אם כן - זה מחזק את השאלה שלעיל. אם לא - זו שאלה מוזרה...

אולי שווה לחזור ולשאול: מהי בכלל התורה עבורך?

איך יגיב שמאי? האם בקשת הגר מוצדקת / לגיטימית?

נסו לחבר את המשך הסיפור.
גער בו והוציאו בנזיפה.

בא לפני הלל, גייריה. [=גייר אותו]

יומא קמא אמר ליה: א"ב ג"ד, למחר אפיך ליה. [ביום הראשון אמר לו א"ב ג"ד (כלומר לימוד אותו את האלף בית), למחרת הפך לו (את הסדר ולימד אותו מהסוף להתחלה)]

אמר ליה [לו]: והא אתמול לא אמרת לי הכי? [והרי אתמול לא אמרת לי כך?]
who wagered with each other and said: Anyone who will go and aggravate Hillel to the point that he reprimands him, will take four-hundred zuz. One of them said: I will aggravate him. That day that he chose to bother Hillel was Shabbat eve, and Hillel was washing the hair on his head. He went and passed the entrance to Hillel’s house and in a demeaning manner said: Who here is Hillel, who here is Hillel? Hillel wrapped himself in a dignified garment and went out to greet him. He said to him: My son, what do you seek? He said to him: I have a question to ask. Hillel said to him: Ask, my son, ask. The man asked him: Why are the heads of Babylonians oval? He was alluding to and attempting to insult Hillel, who was Babylonian. He said to him: My son, you have asked a significant question. The reason is because they do not have clever midwives. They do not know how to shape the child’s head at birth. That man went and waited one hour, a short while, returned to look for Hillel, and said: Who here is Hillel, who here is Hillel? Again, Hillel wrapped himself and went out to greet him. Hillel said to him: My son, what do you seek? The man said to him: I have a question to ask. He said to him: Ask, my son, ask. The man asked: Why are the eyes of the residents of Tadmor bleary [terutot]? Hillel said to him: My son, you have asked a significant question. The reason is because they live among the sands and the sand gets into their eyes. Once again the man went, waited one hour, returned, and said: Who here is Hillel, who here is Hillel? Again, he, Hillel, wrapped himself and went out to greet him. He said to him: My son, what do you seek? He said to him: I have a question to ask. He said to him: Ask, my son, ask. The man asked: Why do Africans have wide feet? Hillel said to him: You have asked a significant question. The reason is because they live in marshlands and their feet widened to enable them to walk through those swampy areas. That man said to him: I have many more questions to ask, but I am afraid lest you get angry. Hillel wrapped himself and sat before him, and he said to him: All of the questions that you have to ask, ask them. The man got angry and said to him: Are you Hillel whom they call the Nasi of Israel? He said to him: Yes. He said to him: If it is you, then may there not be many like you in Israel. Hillel said to him: My son, for what reason do you say this? The man said to him: Because I lost four hundred zuz because of you. Hillel said to him: Be vigilant of your spirit and avoid situations of this sort. Hillel is worthy of having you lose four hundred zuz and another four hundred zuz on his account, and Hillel will not get upset. The Sages taught: There was an incident involving one gentile who came before Shammai. The gentile said to Shammai: How many Torahs do you have? He said to him: Two, the Written Torah and the Oral Torah. The gentile said to him: With regard to the Written Torah, I believe you, but with regard to the Oral Torah, I do not believe you. Convert me on condition that you will teach me only the Written Torah. Shammai scolded him and cast him out with reprimand. The same gentile came before Hillel, who converted him and began teaching him Torah. On the first day, he showed him the letters of the alphabet and said to him: Alef, bet, gimmel, dalet. The next day he reversed the order of the letters and told him that an alef is a tav and so on. The convert said to him: But yesterday you did not tell me that. Hillel said to him: You see that it is impossible to learn what is written without relying on an oral tradition. Didn’t you rely on me? Therefore, you should also rely on me with regard to the matter of the Oral Torah, and accept the interpretations that it contains. There was another incident involving one gentile who came before Shammai and said to Shammai: Convert me on condition that you teach me the entire Torah while I am standing on one foot. Shammai pushed him away with the builder’s cubit in his hand. This was a common measuring stick and Shammai was a builder by trade. The same gentile came before Hillel. He converted him and said to him: That which is hateful to you do not do to another; that is the entire Torah, and the rest is its interpretation. Go study. There was another incident involving one gentile who was passing behind the study hall and heard the voice of a teacher who was teaching Torah to his students and saying the verse: “And these are the garments which they shall make: A breastplate, and an efod, and a robe, and a tunic of checkered work, a mitre, and a girdle” (Exodus 28:4). The gentile said: These garments, for whom are they designated? The students said to him: For the High Priest. The gentile said to himself: I will go and convert so that they will install me as High Priest. He came before Shammai and said to him: Convert me on condition that you install me as High Priest. Shammai pushed him with the builder’s cubit in his hand. He came before Hillel; he converted him. Hillel said to him, to the convert: Is it not the way of the world that only one who knows the protocols [takhsisei] of royalty is appointed king? Go and learn the royal protocols by engaging in Torah study. He went and read the Bible. When he reached the verse which says: “And the common man that draws near shall be put to death” (Numbers 1:51), the convert said to Hillel: With regard to whom is the verse speaking? Hillel said to him: Even with regard to David, king of Israel. The convert reasoned an a fortiori inference himself: If the Jewish people are called God’s children, and due to the love that God loved them he called them: “Israel is My son, My firstborn” (Exodus 4:22), and nevertheless it is written about them: And the common man that draws near shall be put to death; a mere convert who came without merit, with nothing more than his staff and traveling bag, all the more so that this applies to him, as well. The convert came before Shammai and told him that he retracts his demand to appoint him High Priest, saying: Am I at all worthy to be High Priest? Is it not written in the Torah: And the common man that draws near shall be put to death? He came before Hillel and said to him: Hillel the patient, may blessings rest upon your head as you brought me under the wings of the Divine Presence. The Gemara relates: Eventually, the three converts gathered together in one place, and they said: Shammai’s impatience sought to drive us from the world; Hillel’s patience brought us beneath the wings of the Divine Presence. The Gemara continues discussing the conduct of the Sages, citing that Reish Lakish said: What is the meaning of that which is written: “And the faith of your times shall be a strength of salvation, wisdom, and knowledge, the fear of the Lord is his treasure” (Isaiah 33:6)? Faith; that is the order of Zeraim, Seeds, in the Mishna, because a person has faith in God and plants his seeds (Jerusalem Talmud). Your times; that is the order of Moed, Festival, which deals with the various occasions and Festivals that occur throughout the year. Strength; that is the order of Nashim, Women. Salvations; that is the order of Nezikin, Damages, as one who is being pursued is rescued from the hands of his pursuer. Wisdom; that is the order of Kodashim, Consecrated Items. And knowledge; that is the order of Teharot, Purity, which is particularly difficult to master. And even if a person studies and masters all of these, “the fear of the Lord is his treasure,” it is preeminent. With regard to the same verse, Rava said: After departing from this world, when a person is brought to judgment for the life he lived in this world, they say to him in the order of that verse: Did you conduct business faithfully? Did you designate times for Torah study? Did you engage in procreation? Did you await salvation? Did you engage in the dialectics of wisdom or understand one matter from another? And, nevertheless, beyond all these, if the fear of the Lord is his treasure, yes, he is worthy, and if not, no, none of these accomplishments have any value. There is a parable that illustrates this. A person who said to his emissary: Bring a kor of wheat up to the attic for me to store there. The messenger went and brought it up for him. He said to the emissary: Did you mix a kav of ḥomton, a preservative to keep away worms, into it for me? He said to him: No. He said to him: If so, it would have been preferable had you not brought it up. Of what use is worm-infested wheat? Likewise, Torah and mitzvot without the fear of God are of no value. On a related note, the Gemara cites a halakha that was taught in the school of Rabbi Yishmael: A person who sells wheat may, ab initio, mix a kav of ḥomton into a kor of grain and need not be concerned that by selling it all at the price of grain he will be guilty of theft, as the kav of ḥomton is essential for the preservation of the wheat. Rabba bar Rav Huna said: Any person who has Torah in him but does not have
דיון
מה דעתכם על הגיור הזה?

מה דעתכם על הלל?

מיד אחרי הגיור, הלל מתחיל ללמד אותו. מדוע הוא הופך לגר את סדר האותיות?

מה הוא מנסה להראות לו? האם זו שיטה חינוכית חכמה או שמא מניפולציה שהיא על גבול הרמאות?

האם אפשר ללמוד תורה ללא פירוש?

מי מחליט מה הפירוש הנכון?

האם צריך בכלל להחליט מה הפירוש הנכון? באילו מקרים כן ובאילו מקרים - לא?

חשבו על מצוות שאינן כתובות בתורה: הדלקת נרות בכניסת שבת, תפילה, צדקה (יש מתנות עניים בשדה אבל לא צדקה), לימוד תורה. תנו עוד דוגמאות.

האם מצוות אלה פחות חשובות מן המצוות שכתובות בתורה?

האם אפשר להתגייר או להיות יהודי בלי תורה שבעל פה?
אמר לו: לאו עלי דידי קא סמכת? דעל פה נמי סמוך עלי. [לא עלי אתה סומך? (בעניין תורה) שבעל פה גם סמוך עלי].

הסברים
  • רש"י: מנין אתה יודע שזו אלף וזו בית. אלא שלימדתיך וסמכת עלי, דעל פה (על תורה שבעל פה) נמי [גם] סמוך על דברי.
The Sages taught: There was an incident involving one gentile who came before Shammai. The gentile said to Shammai: How many Torahs do you have? He said to him: Two, the Written Torah and the Oral Torah. The gentile said to him: With regard to the Written Torah, I believe you, but with regard to the Oral Torah, I do not believe you. Convert me on condition that you will teach me only the Written Torah. Shammai scolded him and cast him out with reprimand. The same gentile came before Hillel, who converted him and began teaching him Torah. On the first day, he showed him the letters of the alphabet and said to him: Alef, bet, gimmel, dalet. The next day he reversed the order of the letters and told him that an alef is a tav and so on. The convert said to him: But yesterday you did not tell me that. Hillel said to him: You see that it is impossible to learn what is written without relying on an oral tradition. Didn’t you rely on me? Therefore, you should also rely on me with regard to the matter of the Oral Torah, and accept the interpretations that it contains.
דיון
מה המשמעות של תשובת הלל?

יש כאן התיחסות לחשיבות של המסורת וההוראה.

האם הלל מצפה מהגר להסכים לכל מה שיאמר לשנן את מה שיאמר לו ללא ביקורת?

זהו סוף הסיפור הראשון. נדמה שיש בו כדי לנסות לענות על השאלה, מהי תורה שבעל פה.

אך עדיין נותרת פתוחה השאלה מה כל זה קשור אלינו, להיום ולכל מי שאינו מנהל את חייו על פי התורה.

הסיפור הבא יתייחס לשאלה זו, אולם לפני שנלמד אותו, נסו את התרגיל הבא:

כתבו את העיקרון המכונן של עולם הערכים שלכם. כלומר, את הערך שעליו לא תסכימו לוותר בשום אופן.

יש לכתוב זאת במשפט אחד (!).

כעת נוכל לעבור לסיפור השני
שוב מעשה בנכרי אחד שבא לפני שמאי

אמר לו: גיירני על מנת שתלמדני כל התורה כולה כשאני עומד על רגל אחת.

דחפו באמת הבנין שבידו.

בא לפני הלל, גייריה [גייר אותו].

אמר לו: דעלך סני - לחברך לא תעביד, זו היא כל התורה כולה, ואידך פירושה הוא, זיל גמור.

[מה שעליך שנוא - לחברך לא תעשה, זו היא כל התורה כולה, והשאר פירושה (של התורה) הוא, לך ולמד].
There was another incident involving one gentile who came before Shammai and said to Shammai: Convert me on condition that you teach me the entire Torah while I am standing on one foot. Shammai pushed him away with the builder’s cubit in his hand. This was a common measuring stick and Shammai was a builder by trade. The same gentile came before Hillel. He converted him and said to him: That which is hateful to you do not do to another; that is the entire Torah, and the rest is its interpretation. Go study.
דיון
מבנה הסיפור דומה לקודמו.

האם זו בקשה לגיטימית להתגייר על רגל אחת?

מה יכולה להיות הסיבה לבקשה כה מוזרה?

מדוע הלל מוכן לגייר אותו?

מהו העיקרון המכונן של התורה לפי הלל? האם אנחנו יכולים לשער מהו העיקרון המכונן של התורה לפי שמאי?

האם שמאי והלל מסכימים בשאלת מהותה של התורה?

כדאי לשים לב לשלוש הזרועות באמירתו של הלל.
דיון
נתעכב על העיקרון המכונן את התורה על רגל אחת לפי הלל:

איך קשורות מצוות שבין אדם למקום (תפילה, כשרות, ברית מילה וכו') לעיקרון ש"לא לעשות לחברך מה ששנוא עליך"? איך זה יכול להיות פרוש של אמירה זו?

מדוע כל כך חשוב לא לעשות לזולת מה ששנוא עלינו?

האם זה באמת פשוט "לא לעשות לחברך מה ששנוא עליך"? חשבו על דוגמאות מן החיים. מה מעכב או מקשה על ביצוע העיקרון הפשוט הזה?

הלימוד מקבל כאן תפקיד מרכזי. מהי מטרת לימוד התורה מבחינת הלל הזקן?

מה דעתך על כך?

האם באמת אפשר ללמוד מטקסטים כל כך עתיקים על יחסים בינאישיים בימינו?

מדוע לא לעסוק בשאלות מוסר ככה, בלי קשר לתורה? האם זה הופך את לימוד התורה למיותר?
דף הנחיות למנחה:
שתי תורות.doc