The Oral Talmud with Benay Lappe and Dan Libenson Episode 160

מֵעַתָּה בְּמָקוֹם שֶׁיֵּשׁ בֵּית הַמִּדְרַשׁ אַל יִקְרְאוּ. בְּמָקוֹם שֶׁאֵין בֵּית הַמִּדְרַשׁ יִקְרְאוּ. לֵית לָךְ אֶלָּא כְהָדָא דְּתַנֵּי רִבִּי נְחֶמְיָה. דְּתַנֵּי רִבִּי נְחֶמְיָה. מִפְּנֵי מָה אֵין קוֹרִין בְּכִתְבֵי הַקּוֹדֶשׁ אֶלָּא מִן הַמִּנְחָה וּלְמַעֲלָה. מִפְּנֵי שִׁטְרֵי הֶדְיוֹטוֹת. שֶׁאִם אוֹמֵר אַתְּ שֶׁהוּא מוּתָּר. אַף הוּא אוֹמֵר. מַה בְכָךְ שֶׁנִּתְעַסֵּק בִּשְׁטָרוֹתַיי. מִתּוֹךְ שֶׁאַתְּ אוֹמֵר לוֹ שֶׁהוּא אָסוּר. אַף הוּא אוֹמֵר. כִּתְבֵי הַקּוֹדֶשׁ אָסוּר. שִׁטְרֵי הֶדְיוֹטוֹת לֹא כָל־שֶׁכֵּן. הָדָא אָֽמְרָה. שֶׁהַמִּשְׁנָה קוֹדֶמֶת לַמִּקְרָא. וְדָא מְסַייְעָא לְהַהִיא דְתַנֵּי רִבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן יוֹחַי. דְּתַנֵּי רִבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן יוֹחַי. הָעוֹסֵק בַּמִּקְרָא מִידָּה שֶׁאֵינָהּ מִידָּה. הָעוֹסֵק בַּמִּשְׁנָה מִידָּה שֶׁנּוּטְלִין מִמֶּנָּה שָׂכָר. הָעוֹסֵק בַּתַּלְמוּד אֵין לָךְ מִידָּה גְדוֹלָה מִזּוֹ. לְעוֹלָם הֲוֵי רָץ אַחַר הַמִּשְׁנָה יוֹתֵר מִן הַתַּלְמוּד.

From now, in a place where there is a House of Study one should not read, at a place where there is no House of Study one should read. You only have what Rebbi Neḥemiah stated, as Rebbi Neḥemiah stated, why may one only read sacred writings after afternoon prayers? Because of persons’ documents. Because if you were telling him that it is permitted, then he would say, there is nothing wrong if I would occupy myself with my documents. Since you are telling him that it is forbidden, then he will say, since sacred writings are forbidden, so much more private documents. This implies that Mishnah has precedence over Bible. This supports what Rebbi Simeon ben Yoḥai stated, as Rebbi Simeon ben Yoḥai stated, he who studies the written Torah does himself good that is not so good; he who studies Mishnah is occupied in an endeavor which deserves reward; he who studies Talmud could not endeavor anything greater than this, always a person should pursue Mishnah more than Talmud. Rebbi Yose ben Rebbi Abun said, this was before Rebbi incorporated most of the Mishnah in the Talmud, but since Rebbi incorporated most of the Mishnah in the Talmud, a person should pursue Talmud more than Mishnah.

וכן הוא אומר (דברים כ״ט:ט׳) אתם נצבים היום כלכם לפני ה' אלהיכם ראשיכם שבטיכם זקניכם ושוטריכם כל איש ישראל. מה אלו לא היו במעמד זה, שעמד וקיים תורה בישראל - לא היתה תורה משתכחת מישראל. ומה אלו לא עמד שפן בשעתו ועזרא בשעתו ור' עקיבא בשעתו - לא היה תורה משתכחת מישראל. ואומר (משלי טו) דבר בעתו מה טוב, דבר שאמר זה שקול כנגד הכל.

And thus is it written (Deuteronomy 29:9) "You are standing this day, all of you, before the Lord your God, your heads of your tribes, your elders and your officers, all the men of Israel." If not for (all of) these, who stood and fulfilled Torah in Israel, would Torah not have been forgotten in Israel? And if Shafan had not arisen in his time (viz. II Kings 22) and Ezra in his time and R. Akiva in his time, would Torah not have been forgotten in Israel? And it is written (Proverbs 15:23) "A word in its time — how good!" The word that this one (i.e., each one of those in his time) said is over and against all!

...בִּתְחִלָּה כְּשֶׁנִּשְׁתַּכְּחָה תּוֹרָה מִיִּשְׂרָאֵל — עָלָה עֶזְרָא מִבָּבֶל וְיִסְּדָהּ. חָזְרָה וְנִשְׁתַּכְּחָה — עָלָה הִלֵּל הַבַּבְלִי וְיִסְּדָהּ. חָזְרָה וְנִשְׁתַּכְּחָה — עָלוּ רַבִּי חִיָּיא וּבָנָיו וְיִסְּדוּהָ.

...[W]hen Torah was forgotten from Israel, Ezra ascended from Babylonia and established it. It was again forgotten, and Hillel the Babylonian ascended and established it. It was again forgotten, and Rabbi Ḥiyya and his sons ascended and established it.

...כְּלָל אָמַר רַבִּי עֲקִיבָא: כׇּל מְלָאכָה שֶׁאֶפְשָׁר לַעֲשׂוֹתָהּ מֵעֶרֶב שַׁבָּת — אֵינָהּ דּוֹחָה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת. שְׁחִיטָה, שֶׁאִי אֶפְשָׁר לַעֲשׂוֹתָהּ מֵעֶרֶב שַׁבָּת — דּוֹחָה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת.

גְּמָ׳ תָּנוּ רַבָּנַן: הֲלָכָה זוֹ נִתְעַלְּמָה מִבְּנֵי בְתִירָא. פַּעַם אַחַת חָל אַרְבָּעָה עָשָׂר לִהְיוֹת בְּשַׁבָּת, שָׁכְחוּ וְלֹא יָדְעוּ אִם פֶּסַח דּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת אִם לָאו.

אָמְרוּ: כְּלוּם יֵשׁ אָדָם שֶׁיּוֹדֵעַ אִם פֶּסַח דּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת אִם לָאו? אָמְרוּ לָהֶם: אָדָם אֶחָד יֵשׁ שֶׁעָלָה מִבָּבֶל וְהִלֵּל הַבַּבְלִי שְׁמוֹ, שֶׁשִּׁימֵּשׁ שְׁנֵי גְּדוֹלֵי הַדּוֹר שְׁמַעְיָה וְאַבְטַלְיוֹן, וְיוֹדֵעַ אִם פֶּסַח דּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת אִם לָאו.

שָׁלְחוּ וְקָרְאוּ לוֹ, אָמְרוּ לוֹ: כְּלוּם אַתָּה יוֹדֵעַ אִם הַפֶּסַח דּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת אִם לָאו? אָמַר לָהֶם: וְכִי פֶּסַח אֶחָד יֵשׁ לָנוּ בַּשָּׁנָה שֶׁדּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת? וַהֲלֹא הַרְבֵּה יוֹתֵר מִמָּאתַיִם פְּסָחִים יֵשׁ לָנוּ בַּשָּׁנָה שֶׁדּוֹחִין אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת. אָמְרוּ לוֹ: מִנַּיִן לְךָ? אָמַר לָהֶם: נֶאֱמַר ״מוֹעֲדוֹ״ בַּפֶּסַח, וְנֶאֱמַר ״מוֹעֲדוֹ״ בַּתָּמִיד: מָה ״מוֹעֲדוֹ״ הָאָמוּר בַּתָּמִיד דּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת, אַף ״מוֹעֲדוֹ״ הָאָמוּר בַּפֶּסַח דּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת. וְעוֹד, קַל וָחוֹמֶר הוּא: וּמָה תָּמִיד שֶׁאֵין עָנוּשׁ כָּרֵת דּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת, פֶּסַח שֶׁעָנוּשׁ כָּרֵת — אֵינוֹ דִּין שֶׁדּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת.

מִיָּד הוֹשִׁיבוּהוּ בָּרֹאשׁ, וּמִינּוּהוּ נָשִׂיא עֲלֵיהֶם, וְהָיָה דּוֹרֵשׁ כׇּל הַיּוֹם כּוּלּוֹ בְּהִלְכוֹת הַפֶּסַח. הִתְחִיל מְקַנְטְרָן בִּדְבָרִים. אָמַר לָהֶן: מִי גָּרַם לָכֶם שֶׁאֶעְלֶה מִבָּבֶל וְאֶהְיֶה נָשִׂיא עֲלֵיכֶם — עַצְלוּת שֶׁהָיְתָה בָּכֶם, שֶׁלֹּא שִׁמַּשְׁתֶּם שְׁנֵי גְּדוֹלֵי הַדּוֹר, שְׁמַעְיָה וְאַבְטַלְיוֹן.

אָמְרוּ לוֹ: רַבִּי, שָׁכַח וְלֹא הֵבִיא סַכִּין מֵעֶרֶב שַׁבָּת, מַהוּ? אָמַר לָהֶן: הֲלָכָה זוֹ שָׁמַעְתִּי וְשָׁכַחְתִּי, אֶלָּא הַנַּח לָהֶן לְיִשְׂרָאֵל, אִם אֵין נְבִיאִים הֵן — בְּנֵי נְבִיאִים הֵן.

לְמָחָר, מִי שֶׁפִּסְחוֹ טָלֶה — תּוֹחֲבוֹ בְּצַמְרוֹ, מִי שֶׁפִּסְחוֹ גְּדִי — תּוֹחֲבוֹ בֵּין קַרְנָיו. רָאָה מַעֲשֶׂה וְנִזְכַּר הֲלָכָה, וְאָמַר: כָּךְ מְקוּבְּלַנִי מִפִּי שְׁמַעְיָה וְאַבְטַלְיוֹן.

אָמַר מָר: נֶאֱמַר ״מוֹעֲדוֹ״ בַּפֶּסַח, וְנֶאֱמַר ״מוֹעֲדוֹ״ בְּתָמִיד, מָה ״מוֹעֲדוֹ״ הָאָמוּר בַּתָּמִיד דּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת, אַף ״מוֹעֲדוֹ״ הָאָמוּר בַּפֶּסַח דּוֹחֶה שַׁבָּת. וְתָמִיד גּוּפֵיהּ מְנָלַן דְּדָחֵי שַׁבָּת? אִילֵּימָא מִשּׁוּם דִּכְתִיב בֵּיהּ ״בְּמוֹעֲדוֹ״ — פֶּסַח נָמֵי הָא כְּתִיב בֵּיהּ ״מוֹעֲדוֹ״! אֶלָּא ״מוֹעֲדוֹ״ לָא מַשְׁמַע לֵיהּ. הָכָא נָמֵי ״מוֹעֲדוֹ״ לָא מַשְׁמַע לֵיהּ. אֶלָּא אָמַר קְרָא: ״עוֹלַת שַׁבָּת בְּשַׁבַּתּוֹ עַל עוֹלַת הַתָּמִיד״ — מִכְּלָל [עוֹלָה] דְּתָמִיד קְרֵבָה בְּשַׁבָּת. אָמַר מָר: וְעוֹד קַל וָחוֹמֶר, וּמָה תָּמִיד שֶׁאֵין עָנוּשׁ כָּרֵת דּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת, פֶּסַח שֶׁעָנוּשׁ כָּרֵת — אֵינוֹ דִּין שֶׁדּוֹחֶה אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת. אִיכָּא לְמִיפְרַךְ: מָה לְתָמִיד שֶׁכֵּן תָּדִיר וְכָלִיל. קַל וָחוֹמֶר אֲמַר לְהוּ בְּרֵישָׁא וּפַרְכוּהּ, וַהֲדַר אֲמַר לְהוּ גְּזֵירָה שָׁוָה. וְכִי מֵאַחַר דְּגָמַר גְּזֵירָה שָׁוָה, קַל וָחוֹמֶר לְמָה לִי? אֶלָּא לְדִידְהוּ קָאָמַר לְהוּ: בִּשְׁלָמָא גְּזֵירָה שָׁוָה לָא גָּמְרִיתוּ, דְּאֵין אָדָם דָּן גְּזֵירָה שָׁוָה מֵעַצְמוֹ. אֶלָּא קַל וָחוֹמֶר, דְּאָדָם דָּן מֵעַצְמוֹ, אִיבְּעִי לְכוּ לְמֵידָן! אֲמַרוּ לֵיהּ: קַל וָחוֹמֶר פְּרִיכָא הוּא. אָמַר מָר: לְמָחָר מִי שֶׁפִּסְחוֹ טָלֶה — תּוֹחֵב לוֹ בְּצַמְרוֹ, גְּדִי — תּוֹחֵב לוֹ בֵּין קַרְנָיו.

...Rabbi Akiva stated a principle: Any prohibited labor required for the offering of the sacrifice that can be performed on the eve of Shabbat does not override Shabbat; slaughter, which cannot be performed on the eve of Shabbat, overrides Shabbat.

GEMARA: The Sages taught a baraita with regard to the basic halakha governing the eve of Passover that occurs on Shabbat: This law was forgotten by the sons of Beteira, who were the leaders of their generation. The fourteenth of Nisan once occurred on Shabbat, and they forgot and did not know whether the Paschal lamb overrides Shabbat or not.

They said: Is there any person who knows whether the Paschal lamb overrides Shabbat or not? They said to them: There is a certain man in Jerusalem who came up from Babylonia, and Hillel the Babylonian is his name. At one point, he served the two most eminent scholars of the generation, Shemaya and Avtalyon, and he certainly knows whether the Paschal lamb overrides Shabbat or not.

The sons of Beteira sent messengers and called for him. They said to him: Do you know whether the Paschal lamb overrides Shabbat or not? He said to them: Have we but one Paschal lamb during the year that overrides Shabbat? Do we not have many more than two hundred Paschal lambs, i.e., sacrifices, during the year that override Shabbat? They said to him: From where do you know this? He said to them: “Its appointed time” is stated with regard to the Paschal lamb and “its appointed time” is also stated with regard to the daily offering, for the verse says: “Command the children of Israel and say to them, My offering, the provision of My sacrifice made with fire, for a sweet savor to Me, shall you observe to offer Me at its appointed time” (Numbers 28:2). From here we learn that the daily offering is brought even on Shabbat. Thus, the daily morning and afternoon offerings are brought on more than fifty Shabbatot over the course of the year, and two sheep are offered every Shabbat as additional offerings, for a total of more than two hundred sacrifices a year that override Shabbat. Just as the expression “its appointed time,” which is stated with regard to the daily offering, indicates that it overrides Shabbat, so too “its appointed time,” which is stated with regard to the Paschal lamb, indicates that it overrides Shabbat. And furthermore, it is an a fortiori inference: If the daily offering, the neglect of which is not punishable by karet, overrides Shabbat, is it not right that the Paschal lamb, the neglect of which is punishable by karet, should override Shabbat?

After Hillel brought these proofs, they immediately seated him at the head and appointed him Nasi over them, and he expounded the laws of Passover that entire day. He began rebuking them with words. He said to them: What caused this to happen to you, that I should come up from Babylonia and become Nasi over you? It was the laziness in you that you did not serve the two most eminent scholars of the generation, Shemaya and Avtalyon.

They said to Hillel: Our teacher, if one forgot and did not bring a knife on the eve of Shabbat and cannot slaughter his Paschal lamb, what is the law? He said to them: I once heard this halakha but I have forgotten it. But leave it to the Jewish people; if they are not prophets, they are the sons of prophets.

The next day, on Shabbat that was the eve of Passover, one whose Paschal offering was a lamb took the knife and stuck it in its wool; and one whose Paschal offering was a goat, which does not have wool, stuck it between its horns. Hillel saw the incident and remembered the halakha that he had once learned and said: This is the tradition I received from the mouths of Shemaya and Avtalyon.


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