Kreuzberg Kollel 4.3

We'll start by re-reading our Mishnah together, because understanding our Mishnah is the KEY to understanding what is really happening in the Gemara!

בְּנֵי הָעִיר שֶׁמָּכְרוּ רְחוֹבָהּ שֶׁל עִיר לוֹקְחִין בְּדָמָיו בֵּית הַכְּנֶסֶת בֵּית הַכְּנֶסֶת לוֹקְחִין תֵּיבָה תֵּיבָה לוֹקְחִין מִטְפָּחוֹת מִטְפָּחוֹת יִקְחוּ סְפָרִים סְפָרִים לוֹקְחִין תּוֹרָה
MISHNA: Residents of a town who sold the town square, which was at times used for public prayer and therefore attained a certain degree of sanctity, may use the proceeds of the sale only to purchase something of a greater degree of sanctity. They may therefore purchase a synagogue with the proceeds of the sale. If they sold a synagogue, they may purchase an ark in which to house sacred scrolls. If they sold an ark, they may purchase wrapping cloths for the sacred scrolls. If they sold wrapping cloths, they may purchase scrolls of the Prophets and the Writings. If they sold scrolls of the Prophets and Writings, they may purchase a Torah scroll.

We read in our Mishnah a series of items that can be purchases with the sale of other items, beginning with the sale of the synagogue. The first part of our Gemara today will deal with the sale of the synagogue.

The Gemara will use a common tactic here---which is to derive law via Rabbinical anecdote. The anecdote, or, as the Hassidim would say, the story (ma'aseh), is a powerful device in delivering a message.

Here we will read three stories, and then two conversations/explanations following those stories. All of them are trying to determine to what extent the synagogue maintains its sanctity. Is the building holy forever? Are the bricks holy? Is the land holy? These are especially important questions given how the church views 'consecrated space.' (For more on this, check out this article on Haggia Sophia: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-12/why-is-hagia-sophia-turning-into-mosque-causing-controversy/12446528)

And actually, something INCREDIBLE is happening here---which is, the Gemara is completely re-reading our Mishnah! How is this happening? What is the Gemara doing which is changing how the Mishnah rules?

אָמַר רָבָא לֹא שָׁנוּ אֶלָּא שֶׁלֹּא מָכְרוּ שִׁבְעָה טוֹבֵי הָעִיר בְּמַעֲמַד אַנְשֵׁי הָעִיר אֲבָל מָכְרוּ שִׁבְעָה טוֹבֵי הָעִיר בְּמַעֲמַד אַנְשֵׁי הָעִיר אֲפִילּוּ לְמִישְׁתֵּא בֵּיהּ שִׁיכְרָא שַׁפִּיר דָּמֵי

§ The Gemara returns its discussion of the mishna: Rava said: They taught that there is a limitation on what may be purchased with the proceeds of the sale of a synagogue only when the seven representatives of the town who were appointed to administer the town’s affairs had not sold the synagogue in an assembly of the residents of the town. However, if the seven representatives of the town had sold it in an assembly of the residents of the town, then even to drink beer with the proceeds seems well and is permitted.

רָבִינָא הֲוָה לֵיהּ הָהוּא תִּילָּא דְּבֵי כְנִישְׁתָּא אֲתָא לְקַמֵּיהּ דְּרַב אָשֵׁי אֲמַר לֵיהּ מַהוּ לְמִיזְרְעֵהּ אֲמַר לֵיהּ זִיל זַבְנֵיהּ מִשִּׁבְעָה טוֹבֵי הָעִיר בְּמַעֲמַד אַנְשֵׁי הָעִיר וְזַרְעֵהּ
The Gemara relates: Ravina had a certain piece of land on which stood a mound of the ruins of a synagogue. He came before Rav Ashi and said to him: What is the halakha with regard to sowing the land? He said to him: Go, purchase it from the seven representatives of the town in an assembly of the residents of the town, and then you may sow it.
רָמֵי בַּר אַבָּא הֲוָה קָא בָנֵי בֵּי כְנִישְׁתָּא הֲוָה הָהִיא כְּנִישְׁתָּא עַתִּיקָא הֲוָה בָּעֵי לְמִיסְתְּרַיהּ וּלְאֵתוֹיֵי לִיבְנֵי וּכְשׁוּרֵי מִינַּהּ וְעַיּוֹלֵי לְהָתָם יָתֵיב וְקָא מִיבַּעְיָא לֵיהּ הָא דְּרַב חִסְדָּא דְּאָמַר רַב חִסְדָּא לָא לִיסְתּוֹר בֵּי כְנִישְׁתָּא עַד דְּבָנֵי בֵּי כְנִישְׁתָּא אַחֲרִיתִי הָתָם מִשּׁוּם פְּשִׁיעוּתָא כִּי הַאי גַוְונָא מַאי אֲתָא לְקַמֵּיהּ דְּרַב פָּפָּא וַאֲסַר לֵיהּ לְקַמֵּיהּ דְּרַב הוּנָא וַאֲסַר לֵיהּ

Rami bar Abba was once building a synagogue. There was a certain old synagogue that he wished to demolish, and bring bricks and beams from it, and bring them to there, to construct a new synagogue. He sat and considered that which Rav Ḥisda said, as Rav Ḥisda said: One should not demolish a synagogue until one has built another synagogue. Rami bar Abba reasoned that Rav Ḥisda’s ruling there is due to a concern of negligence, as perhaps after the first synagogue is demolished, people will be negligent and a new one will never be built. However, in a case like this, where the new synagogue is to be built directly from the materials of the old one, what is the halakha? He came before Rav Pappa to ask his opinion, and he prohibited him from doing so. He then came before Rav Huna, and he also prohibited him from doing so.

אָמַר רָבָא הַאי בֵּי כְנִישְׁתָּא חַלּוֹפַהּ וְזַבּוֹנַהּ שְׁרֵי אוֹגוֹרַהּ וּמַשְׁכּוֹנַהּ אֲסִיר מַאי טַעְמָא בִּקְדוּשְׁתַּהּ קָאֵי לִיבְנֵי נָמֵי חַלּוֹפִינְהוּ וְזַבּוֹנִינְהוּ שְׁרֵי אוֹזוֹפִינְהוּ אֲסִיר הָנֵי מִילֵּי בְּעַתִּיקָתָא אֲבָל בְּחַדְתָּ[תָ]א לֵית לַן בַּהּ וַאֲפִילּוּ לְמַאן דְּאָמַר הַזְמָנָה מִילְּתָא הִיא הָנֵי מִילֵּי כְּגוֹן הָאוֹרֵג בֶּגֶד לַמֵּת אֲבָל הָכָא כְּטָווּי לְאָרִיג דָּמֵי וְלֵיכָּא לְמַאן דְּאָמַר

Rava said: With regard to this synagogue, exchanging it for a different building or selling it for money is permitted, but renting it out or mortgaging it is prohibited. What is the reason for this? When a synagogue is rented out or mortgaged, it remains in its sacred state. Therefore, it is prohibited to rent it out or mortgage it, because it will then be used for a non-sacred purpose. However, if it is exchanged or sold, its sanctity is transferred to the other building or to the proceeds of the sale, and therefore the old synagogue building may be used for any purpose. The same halakha is also true of the bricks of a synagogue; exchanging them or selling them is permitted, but renting them out is prohibited. The Gemara comments: This applies to old bricks that have already been part of a synagogue, but as for new bricks that have only been designated to be used in a synagogue, we have no problem with it if they are rented out for a non-sacred purpose. And even according to the one who said that mere designation is significant, i.e., although a certain object was not yet used for the designated purpose, the halakhic ramifications of using it for that purpose already take hold, this applies only in a case where it was created from the outset for that purpose, for example, one who weaves a garment to be used as shrouds for a corpse. However, here the bricks are comparable to already spun thread that was then designated to be used to weave burial shrouds. Concerning such designation, where nothing was specifically created for the designated purpose, there is no one who said that the designation is significant.

מַתָּנָה פְּלִיגִי בַּהּ רַב אַחָא וְרָבִינָא חַד אָסַר וְחַד שָׁרֵי מַאן דְּאָסַר בְּמַאי תִּפְקַע קְדוּשְׁתַּהּ וּמַאן דְּשָׁרֵי אִי לָאו דַּהֲוָה לֵיהּ הֲנָאָה מִינֵּיהּ לָא הֲוָה יָהֵיב לֵיהּ הֲדַר הָוֵה לַיהּ מַתָּנָה כִּזְבִינֵי
Rav Aḥa and Ravina disagree about whether it is permitted to give away a synagogue as a gift to then be used for a non-sacred purpose. One of them prohibited it, and the other one permitted it. The one who prohibits it says: Is it possible that with this act of giving alone its sanctity is removed? This cannot be the case. Since the synagogue was not exchanged for anything else, there is nothing to which the sanctity may be transferred. Consequently, the synagogue remains sacred. And the one who permitted it does so because he reasons that if the donor did not receive any benefit from giving the synagogue, he would not have given it. Therefore, the gift has reverted to being like a sale, and the sanctity is transferred to the benefit received.

Our Gemara is now going to take a small detour. It is going to quote a Baraita (a Mishnaic era text not included in the Mishnah, but usually in the Tosefta) that relates to the sanctity of different items. In many ways, this Baraita is a commentary on what has happened so far in our text. How is that so?

We then get a series of 5 statements from Rava relating to this Baraita. Rava is a 4th generation Amora, which means he is living about 150 years after the Baraita. But he sure has a lot to say about it! Finally, we get a somewhat different story involving Rava and an Ark and a dead person.

The Gemara is doing something funny here----it will then go on to quote every piece of Gemara it can find about Rava and the holiness of objects. What can we learn about Rava and his world? How does Rava view the sanctity of synagogues, of ritual objects? Does Rava seem to agree or disagree with the Mishnah?

תָּנוּ רַבָּנַן תַּשְׁמִישֵׁי מִצְוָה נִזְרָקִין תַּשְׁמִישֵׁי קְדוּשָּׁה נִגְנָזִין וְאֵלּוּ הֵן תַּשְׁמִישֵׁי מִצְוָה סוּכָּה לוּלָב שׁוֹפָר צִיצִית וְאֵלּוּ הֵן תַּשְׁמִישֵׁי קְדוּשָּׁה דְּלוֹסְקְמֵי סְפָרִים תְּפִילִּין וּמְזוּזוֹת וְתִיק שֶׁל סֵפֶר תּוֹרָה וְנַרְתִּיק שֶׁל תְּפִילִּין וּרְצוּעוֹתֵיהֶן

§ The Sages taught in a baraita: Articles used in the performance of a mitzva may be thrown out after use. However, articles associated with the sanctity of God’s name, i.e. articles on which God’s name is written, and articles that serve an article that has God’s name written on it, even after they are no longer used, must be interred in a respectful manner. And these items are considered articles of a mitzva: A sukka; a lulav; a shofar; and ritual fringes. And these items are considered articles of sanctity: Cases of scrolls, i.e. of Torah scrolls; phylacteries; and mezuzot; and a container for a Torah scroll; and a cover for phylacteries; and their straps.

אָמַר רָבָא מֵרֵישׁ הֲוָה אָמֵינָא הַאי כּוּרְסְיָא תַּשְׁמִישׁ דְּתַשְׁמִישׁ הוּא וּשְׁרֵי כֵּיוָן דַּחֲזֵינָא דְּמוֹתְבִי עִלָּוֵיהּ סֵפֶר תּוֹרָה אָמֵינָא תַּשְׁמִישׁ קְדוּשָּׁה הוּא וַאֲסִיר
Rava said: Initially, I used to say that this lectern in the synagogue upon which the Torah is read is only an article of an article of sanctity, as the Torah scroll does not rest directly upon the lectern but rather upon the cloth that covers it. And the halakha is that once an article of an article of sanctity is no longer used, it is permitted to throw it out. However, once I saw that the Torah scroll is sometimes placed directly upon the lectern without an intervening cloth. I said that it is an article used directly for items of sanctity, and as such it is prohibited to simply discard it after use.
וְאָמַר רָבָא מֵרֵישׁ הֲוָה אָמֵינָא הַאי פְּרִיסָא תַּשְׁמִישׁ דְּתַשְׁמִישׁ הוּא כֵּיוָן דַּחֲזֵינָא דְּעָיְיפִי לֵיהּ וּמַנְּחִי סִיפְרָא עִלָּוֵיהּ אָמֵינָא תַּשְׁמִישׁ קְדוּשָּׁה הוּא וַאֲסִיר
And Rava similarly said: Initially, I used to say that this curtain, which is placed at the opening to the ark as a decoration, is only an article of an article of sanctity, as it serves to beautify the ark but is not directly used for the Torah scroll. However, once I saw that sometimes the curtain is folded over and a Torah scroll is placed upon it. I said that it is an article used directly for items of sanctity and as such it is prohibited to simply discard it after use.
וְאָמַר רָבָא הַאי תֵּיבוּתָא דְּאִירְפַט מִיעְבְּדַהּ תֵּיבָה זוּטַרְתִּי שְׁרֵי כּוּרְסְיָיא אֲסִיר וְאָמַר רָבָא הַאי פְּרִיסָא דִּבְלָה לְמִיעְבְּדֵיהּ פְּרִיסָא לְסִפְרֵי שְׁרֵי לְחוּמְשִׁין אֲסִיר
And Rava further said: With regard to this ark that has fallen apart, constructing a smaller ark from its materials is permitted, as both have the same level of sanctity, but to use the materials to construct a lectern is prohibited because the lectern has a lesser degree of sanctity. And Rava similarly said: With regard to this curtain used to decorate an ark that has become worn out, to fashion it into a wrapping cloth for Torah scrolls is permitted, but to fashion it into a wrapping cloth for a scroll of one of the five books of the Torah is prohibited.
וְאָמַר רָבָא הָנֵי זְבִילֵי דְחוּמָּשֵׁי וְקַמְטְרֵי דְסִפְרֵי תַּשְׁמִישׁ קְדוּשָּׁה נִינְהוּ וְנִגְנָזִין פְּשִׁיטָא מַהוּ דְּתֵימָא הָנֵי לָאו לְכָבוֹד עֲבִידָן לְנַטּוֹרֵי בְּעָלְמָא עֲבִידִי קָא מַשְׁמַע לַן
And Rava also said: With regard to these cases for storing scrolls of one of the five books of the Torah and sacks for storing Torah scrolls, they are classified as articles of sanctity. Therefore, they are to be interred when they are no longer in use. The Gemara asks: Isn’t that obvious? The Gemara answers: Lest you say that since these items are not made for the honor of the scrolls but rather are made merely to provide protection, they should not be classified as articles of sanctity, Rava therefore teaches us that although they are indeed made to protect the scrolls, they also provide honor and are therefore to be classified as articles of sanctity.
הָהוּא בֵּי כְנִישְׁתָּא (דִּיהוּדָאֵי) [דְּ]רוֹמָאֵי דַּהֲוָה פְּתִיחַ לְהָהוּא אִידְּרוֹנָא דַּהֲוָה מַחֵית בֵּיהּ מֵת וַהֲווֹ בָּעוּ כָּהֲנֵי לְמֵיעַל לְצַלּוֹיֵי הָתָם אֲתוֹ אֲמַרוּ לֵיהּ לְרָבָא אֲמַר לְהוּ דַּלּוֹ תֵּיבוּתָא אוֹתְבוּהָ דְּהָוֵה לֵיהּ כְּלִי עֵץ הֶעָשׂוּי לְנַחַת וּכְלִי עֵץ הֶעָשׂוּי לְנַחַת אֵינוֹ מְקַבֵּל טוּמְאָה וְחוֹצֵץ בִּפְנֵי הַטּוּמְאָה אֲמַרוּ לֵיהּ רַבָּנַן לְרָבָא וְהָא זִמְנִין דִּמְטַלְטְלִי לֵיהּ כִּי מַנַּח סֵפֶר תּוֹרָה עִלָּוֵיהּ וְהָוֵה לֵיהּ מִיטַּלְטֵל מָלֵא וְרֵיקָם אִי הָכִי לָא אֶפְשָׁר אָמַר מָר זוּטְרָא מִטְפְּחוֹת סְפָרִים שֶׁבָּלוּ עוֹשִׂין אוֹתָן תַּכְרִיכִין לְמֵת מִצְוָה וְזוֹ הִיא גְּנִיזָתָן
The Gemara relates: There was a certain synagogue of the Jews of Rome that opened out into a room in which a corpse was lying, thereby spreading the ritual impurity of the corpse throughout the synagogue. And the priests wished to enter the synagogue in order to pray there. However, it was prohibited for them to do so because a priest may not come in contact with ritual impurity of a corpse. They came and spoke to Rava, about what to do. He said to them: Lift up the ark and put it down in the opening between the two rooms, as it is a wooden utensil that is designated to rest in one place and not be moved from there, and the halakha is that a wooden utensil that is designated to rest is not susceptible to ritual impurity, and therefore it serves as a barrier to prevent ritual impurity from spreading. The Rabbis said to Rava: But isn’t the ark sometimes moved when a Torah scroll is still resting inside it, and therefore it is a utensil that is moved both when it is full and when it is empty; such a utensil is susceptible to ritual impurity and cannot prevent ritual impurity from spreading. He said to them: If so, if it is as you claim, then it is not possible to remedy the situation. Mar Zutra said: With regard to wrapping cloths of Torah scrolls that have become worn out, they may be made into shrouds for a corpse with no one to bury it [met mitzva], and this is their most appropriate manner for being interred.
וְאָמַר רָבָא סֵפֶר תּוֹרָה שֶׁבָּלָה גּוֹנְזִין אוֹתוֹ אֵצֶל תַּלְמִיד חָכָם וַאֲפִילּוּ שׁוֹנֶה הֲלָכוֹת אָמַר רַב אַחָא בַּר יַעֲקֹב וּבִכְלִי חֶרֶס שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר וּנְתַתָּם בִּכְלִי חָרֶשׂ לְמַעַן יַעַמְדוּ יָמִים רַבִּים
And Rava said: A Torah scroll that became worn out is interred and buried next to a Torah scholar, and in this regard, a Torah scholar is defined even as one who only studies the halakhot in the Mishna and the baraitot but is not proficient in their analysis. Rav Aḥa bar Ya’akov said: And when it is buried, it is first placed in an earthenware vessel, as it is stated: “And put them in an earthenware vessel, that they may last for many days” (Jeremiah 32:14).

And now, some interesting biographical snippets from the life of Rava! These are totally optional texts!

כי אתא רבין א"ר יוחנן כל ששהתה אחר בעלה עשר שנים ונשאת שוב אינה יולדת אמר רב נחמן לא שנו אלא שאין דעתה להנשא אבל דעתה להנשא מתעברת אמר ליה רבא לבת רב חסדא קא מרנני רבנן אבתריך אמרה ליה אנא דעתאי עלך הואי
On the topic of intercourse that cannot result in conception, the Gemara relates the following: When Ravin came from Eretz Yisrael to Babylonia, he said that Rabbi Yoḥanan said: Any woman who waits after her husband has died or divorced her for ten years without intercourse and is then married can no longer bear children. Rav Naḥman said: They taught this principle only with regard to cases where she did not intend to get married at a later time, but if she intended to get married at some point, she can become pregnant later on. Rava said to his wife, the daughter of Rav Ḥisda: The Sages are gossiping about you. From the time she was widowed from her first husband until the time that she was married to Rava, more than ten years passed, yet she bore him children. It seemed as though she had engaged in intercourse in the meantime. She said to him: My mind was on you. Indeed, it is told that already as a young girl she prophesized that she would marry Rava.
תִּנוֹקֹת מַאי הִיא כִּי הָא דְּבַת רַב חִסְדָּא הֲוָה יָתְבָה בְּכַנְפֵיהּ דַּאֲבוּהָ הֲווֹ יָתְבִי קַמֵּיהּ רָבָא וְרָמֵי בַּר חָמָא אֲמַר לַהּ מַאן מִינַּיְיהוּ בָּעֵית אֲמַרָה לֵיהּ תַּרְוַיְיהוּ אָמַר רָבָא וַאֲנָא בָּתְרָא
And in what way was prophecy given to children? It was like this incident involving the daughter of Rav Ḥisda, who when she was a child was sitting on her father’s lap while he sat and learned. Rava and Rami bar Ḥama were sitting before him. Rav Ḥisda jokingly said to his daughter: Which of them would you want as a husband? She said: I want both of them. Rava said: And I will be last. And this is what happened; first she married Rami bar Ḥama, and when he died she married Rava.
אמר רבא אי בעו צדיקי ברו עלמא שנאמר כי עונותיכם היו מבדילים וגו' רבא ברא גברא שדריה לקמיה דר' זירא הוה קא משתעי בהדיה ולא הוה קא מהדר ליה אמר ליה מן חבריא את הדר לעפריך
Rava says: If the righteous wish to do so, they can create a world, as it is stated: “But your iniquities have separated between you and your God.” In other words, there is no distinction between God and a righteous person who has no sins, and just as God created the world, so can the righteous. Indeed, Rava created a man, a golem, using forces of sanctity. Rava sent his creation before Rabbi Zeira. Rabbi Zeira would speak to him but he would not reply. Rabbi Zeira said to him: You were created by one of the members of the group, one of the Sages. Return to your dust.