יא וַיֹּאמֶר--זֶה יִהְיֶה מִשְׁפַּט הַמֶּלֶךְ, אֲשֶׁר יִמְלֹךְ עֲלֵיכֶם: אֶת-בְּנֵיכֶם יִקָּח, וְשָׂם לוֹ בְּמֶרְכַּבְתּוֹ וּבְפָרָשָׁיו, וְרָצוּ, לִפְנֵי מֶרְכַּבְתּוֹ. יב וְלָשׂוּם לוֹ, שָׂרֵי אֲלָפִים וְשָׂרֵי חֲמִשִּׁים; וְלַחֲרֹשׁ חֲרִישׁוֹ וְלִקְצֹר קְצִירוֹ, וְלַעֲשׂוֹת כְּלֵי-מִלְחַמְתּוֹ וּכְלֵי רִכְבּוֹ. יגוְאֶת-בְּנוֹתֵיכֶם, יִקָּח, לְרַקָּחוֹת וּלְטַבָּחוֹת, וּלְאֹפוֹת. יד וְאֶת-שְׂדוֹתֵיכֶם וְאֶת-כַּרְמֵיכֶם וְזֵיתֵיכֶם, הַטּוֹבִים--יִקָּח; וְנָתַן, לַעֲבָדָיו. טו וְזַרְעֵיכֶם וְכַרְמֵיכֶם, יַעְשֹׂר; וְנָתַן לְסָרִיסָיו, וְלַעֲבָדָיו. טזוְאֶת-עַבְדֵיכֶם וְאֶת-שִׁפְחוֹתֵיכֶם וְאֶת-בַּחוּרֵיכֶם הַטּוֹבִים, וְאֶת-חֲמוֹרֵיכֶם--יִקָּח; וְעָשָׂה, לִמְלַאכְתּוֹ. יז צֹאנְכֶם, יַעְשֹׂר; וְאַתֶּם, תִּהְיוּ-לוֹ לַעֲבָדִים. יח וּזְעַקְתֶּם, בַּיּוֹם הַהוּא, מִלִּפְנֵי מַלְכְּכֶם, אֲשֶׁר בְּחַרְתֶּם לָכֶם; וְלֹא-יַעֲנֶה ה' אֶתְכֶם, בַּיּוֹם הַהוּא. יט וַיְמָאֲנוּ הָעָם, לִשְׁמֹעַ בְּקוֹל שְׁמוּאֵל; וַיֹּאמְרוּ לֹּא, כִּי אִם-מֶלֶךְ יִהְיֶה עָלֵינוּ. כ וְהָיִינוּ גַם-אֲנַחְנוּ, כְּכָל-הַגּוֹיִם; וּשְׁפָטָנוּ מַלְכֵּנוּ וְיָצָא לְפָנֵינוּ, וְנִלְחַם אֶת-מִלְחֲמֹתֵנוּ. כא וַיִּשְׁמַע שְׁמוּאֵל, אֵת כָּל-דִּבְרֵי הָעָם; וַיְדַבְּרֵם, בְּאָזְנֵי ה'.
1 Samuel 8:11-21
11 And he said: 'This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: he will take your sons, and appoint them unto him, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and they shall run before his chariots. 12 And he will appoint them unto him for captains of thousands, and captains of fifties; and to plow his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and the instruments of his chariots. 13 And he will take your daughters to be perfumers, and to be cooks, and to be bakers. 14 And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants. 15 And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants. 16 And he will take your men-servants, and your maid-servants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work. 17 He will take the tenth of your flocks; and ye shall be his servants. 18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king whom ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not answer you in that day.' 19 But the people refused to hearken unto the voice of Samuel; and they said: 'Nay; but there shall be a king over us; 20 that we also may be like all the nations; and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles.' 21 And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he spoke them in the ears of the LORD
What does the Levitical text offer us in thinking about a Jewish relationship to foreign laws/practices/authority? What motivations might underlie this attitude?
How does the text from Samuel imagine having a king? What might "king" stand in for today? How else could we imagine relating to government/the state given this text?
על שבע מצוות נצטוו בני נח על הדינין ועל עבודה זרה ועל קיללת השם ועל גילוי עריות ועל שפיכות דמים ועל הגזל...כל ערוה שבית דין של ישראל ממיתין עליה בני נח מוזהרין עליה דברי ר' מאיר...
Tosefta Masechet Avodah Zarah (Zuckermandel) 8:4
Regarding seven things, the children of Noach were commanded: regarding (the establishment of) courts, and regarding idolatry, and regarding profaning the name of God, and regarding sexual impropriety, and regarding murder, and regarding stealing...Every act of sexual impropriety that a Jewish court gives the death sentence for, the children of Noach are (only) warned regarding it--these are the words of Rabbi Meir...
Codex Theodosianus, Book 16.8.20, 412 CE
If it should appear that any places are frequented by conventicles of the Jews and are all called by the name of the synagogues, no one shall dare to violate or to occupy and retain such places, since all persons must retain their own property in undisturbed right, without any claim of religion or worship. Moreover, since indeed ancient custom and practice have preserved for the aforesaid Jewish people the consecrated day of the Sabbath, We also decree that is shall be forbidden that any man of the aforesaid faith be constrained by any summons on that day, under the pretext of public or private business, since all the remaining time appears sufficient to satisfy the public laws, and since it is most worthy of the moderation of Our time that the privileges granted should not be violated, although sufficient provision appears to have been made with reference to the aforesaid matter by general constitutions of earlier Emperors.
The specific content of the Tosefta aside (i.e. don't get caught up in sexual moralism and who is more strict--that is an important conversation but not our focus) what does the Tosefta offer us in ways of thinking about Jewish governance and non-Jewish governance? How do these relate to each other? How does this vision for governance compare to the modern nation states we have today?
How does the Codex Theodosianus imagine the relationship between Jewish law and Roman law? How does this compare to the modern conception? What is gained/lost in these differences?
כללו של דבר כל דין שיחקוק אותו המלך לכל ולא [ט] יהיה לאדם אחד בפני עצמו אינו גזל. וכל שיקח מאיש זה בלבד שלא כדת הידועה לכל אלא חמס את זה הרי זה גזל. ג לפיכך גבאי המלך ושוטריו שמוכרים השדות במס [י] הקצוב על השדות ממכרן ממכר. אבל מס שעל כל איש ואיש אינו גובה אלא מן האדם עצמו ואם מכרו השדה במס שעל הראש הרי זה אינו ממכר אלא אם כן היה דין המלך כך.
The general principle is: Any law that a king decrees to be universally applicable, and not merely applying to one person, is not considered robbery. But whenever he takes from one person alone in a manner that does not conform to a known law, but rather seizes the property from the person arbitrarily, it is considered to be robbery.
Therefore, when the king's tax collectors and enforcement officers sell fields because the owner did not pay the fixed tax for the field, the sale is binding. A head tax, however, is the personal responsibility of each person and it may not be collected from his property. Thus, if a field was sold because an individual was delinquent in paying the head tax, the sale is not binding, unless this is the law enacted by this particular king....
Las Siete Partidas: Laws on Jews, 1265
LAW V. NO COMPULSION SHALL BE BROUGHT TO BEAR UPON THE JEWS ON SATURDAY, AND WHAT JEWS CAN BE SUBJECT TO COMPULSION Saturday is the day on which Jews perform their devotions, and remain quiet in their lodgings and do not make contracts or transact any business; and for the reason that they are obliged by their religion to keep its no one should on that day summon them or bring them into court. Wherefore we order that no judge shall employ force or any constraint upon Jews on Saturday, in order to bring them into court on account of their debts; or arrest them; or cause them any other annoyance; for the remaining days of the week are sufficient for the purpose of employing compulsion against them, and for making demands for things which can be demanded of them according to law. Jews are not bound to obey a summons served upon them on that day; and, moreover, we decree that any decision rendered against them on Saturday shall not be valid; but if a Jew should wound, kill, rob, steal, or commit any other offense like these for which he can be punished in person and property, then the judge can arrest him on Saturday. We also decree that all claims that Christians have against Jews, and Jews against Christians, shall be decided and determined by our judges in the district where they reside, and not by their old men. [Jewish courts have no jurisdiction if one of the parties is a Christian.] And as we forbid Christians to bring Jews into court or annoy them on Saturday; so we also decree that Jews, neither in person, nor by their attorneys, shall have the right to bring Christians into court, or annoy them on this day. And in addition to this, we forbid any Christian, on his own responsibility, to arrest or wrong any Jew either in his person or property, but where he has any complaint against him he must bring it before our judges; and if anyone should be so bold as to use violence against the Jews, or rob them of anything, he shall return them double the value of the same.
What are the principles at play for the Rambam in accepting a king's authority? What do we know about the Rambam that may lead him towards a particular disposition towards kings? How might we read his halachic opinion in relationship to modernization and the status of Jews?
What does this law from the Siete Partidas offer us? How does this compare to Jews under modern law? What is gained/lost in this change?
אמר רב אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל נכסי עובד כוכבים הרי הן כמדבר כל המחזיק בהן זכה בהן מאי טעמא עובד כוכבים מכי מטו זוזי לידיה אסתלק ליה ישראל לא קני עד דמטי שטרא לידיה הלכך הרי הן כמדבר וכל המחזיק בהן זכה בהן א"ל אבה' לרב יוסף מי אמר שמואל הכי והאמר שמואל דינא דמלכותא דינא ומלכא אמר לא ליקני ארעא אלא באיגרתא אמר ליה אנא לא ידענא עובדא
Rav said in the name of Rab Yehudah in the name of Shmuel: The property of a worshipper of stars is on the same footing as desert land; whoever first occupies it acquires ownership. The reason is that as soon as the worshipper of stars receives the money, he ceases to be the owner, whereas the Jew does not become the owner till he obtains the deed of sale. Hence [in the interval] the land is like desert land and the first occupier becomes the owner. Said Abaye to R. Joseph: Did Shmuel really say this? Has not Shmuel laid down that the law of the Government is law, and the king has ordained that land is not to be acquired save by means of a deed? R. Joseph replied: I know nothing of that...
The Assembly of Jewish Notables, Napoleonic Sanhedrin, 1806
Second Question:
Is divorce allowed by the Jewish religion? Is divorce valid when not pronounced by courts of justice by virtue of laws in contradiction with those of the French Code?
Answer:
Repudiation is allowed by the law of Moses; but it is not valid if not Previously pronounced by the French code.
In the eyes of every Israelite, without exception, submission to the prince is the first of duties. It is a Principle generally acknowledged among them, that, in every thing relating to civil or political interests, the law of the state is the supreme law. Before they were admitted in France to share the rights of all citizens, and when they lived under a particular legislation which set them at liberty to follow their religious customs, they had the ability to divorce their wives; but it was extremely rare to see it put into practice. Since the revolution, they have acknowledged no other laws on this head but those of the empire. At the epoch when they were admitted to the rank of citizens, the Rabbis and the principal Jews appeared before the municipalities of their respective places of abode, and took an oath to conform, in every thing to the laws, and to acknowledge no other rules in all civil matters
The phrase "dina d'malchuta dina/the law of the land is the law" appears 4 times in the Talmud Bavli (which emerged in exile under a foreign power) and is not in the Talmud Yerushalmi (which emerged in the land of Israel) at all. It appears hundreds of times in classical commentaries and codes and thousands of times in responsa literature (in other words, it grew in usage over time). Why do you think this concept has grown in usage (as well as the areas of law to which is applies) over the years? Why might it have been present in the Bavli and not the Yerushalmi? What do you make of its usages here in the Bavli and in the Modern era? What is compelling to you about it? What is not?