Women and Zimun GNOL Shavuot 2021

(10) When you have eaten your fill, give thanks to the LORD your God for the good land which He has given you.

We also learned in the mishna that women are obligated to recite the Grace after Meals. The Gemara asks: That too is obvious. The Gemara replies: Lest you say: Since it is written: “When the Lord shall give you meat to eat in the evening and bread in the morning to the full” (Exodus 16:8), one might conclude that the Torah established fixed times for the meals and, consequently, for the mitzva of Grace after Meals and, therefore, it is considered a time-bound, positive mitzva, exempting women from its recitation. Therefore, the mishna teaches us that women are obligated... Ravina said to Rava: We learned in the mishna that women are obligated in the mitzva of Grace after Meals. However, are they obligated by Torah law or merely by rabbinic law?...The difference is regarding her ability to fulfill the obligation of others when reciting the blessing on their behalf...Come and hear from what was taught in a baraita: Actually they said that a son may recite a blessing on behalf of his father, and a slave may recite a blessing on behalf of his master, and a woman may recite a blessing on behalf of her husband, but the Sages said: May a curse come to a man who, due to his ignorance, requires his wife and children to recite a blessing on his behalf.

Women [required] in the blessing after meals from the Torah- as it says "and you will eat and you will be satisfied"- and so this is a positive commandment that is not time bound; or it's a rabbinical commandment, as it says "on this good land that I have given to you," and the land was not given to portion out. But if it's because of the daughters of Tzlafchad, (who were female yet were given a portion of the land), what they actually received was their father's portion, he was one of those who exited Egypt.

Is the requirement for women to bless after meals from the Torah or the Rabbis? Rashi explains that according to him , women are not required from the Torah because it says "on the good land," and women did not take a portion of the land, and what the daughters of Tzlafchad were apportioned was really their father's portion. And this is surprising/I wonder about this because Kohanim and Leviim would also be included in this reasoning, because they did not receive a portion of the land and if so, they cannot relieve others of their requirement (i.e. lead bentching). Rather, it can be said that the reason is because it is written "on your covenant that you sealed with our flesh and on the Torah that you have taught us," and women are not included in the mitzva of brit or Torah, and it says earlier that one who doesn't mention Brit and Torah has not fulfilled his obligation. And here, it has to be because they (women) would not mention about Brit and Torah, it must be that this is a requirement from the Rabbis. Or, perhaps, its (the rule requiring you to mention Torah and Brit to make it count) is not relevant, so it is from the Torah, and the gemara later (making this rule) is only talking about men. for whom Brit and Torah is relevant.

Women are obligated in the Grace after Meals, and it is a doubt whether this is Torah Law, and they can be Yotzei men, or if they are only obligated through a Rabbinic decree, and therefore they cannot be Yotzei men, only people who also have a Rabbinic level of obligation.

The Gemara cites yet another proof. Come and hear: Women form a zimmun for themselves and slaves form a zimmun for themselves; however, women, slaves, and minors, even if they wish to form a zimmun together, they may not form a zimmun. Aren’t one hundred women considered the equivalent of two men, in that they cannot constitute a prayer quorum, and yet they may form a zimmun? Apparently, like women, two men can form a zimmun on their own. The Gemara rejects this: There it is different because, although women cannot constitute a prayer quorum, since there are three individual minds, i.e., people, three women can fulfill the verse: “Praise God with me, and we will exalt His name together.” Two men cannot. The Gemara objects: If so, say the latter clause of this baraita: Women and slaves, if they wish to form a zimmun, they may not form a zimmun. Why not? Aren’t they individual minds, which should enable the collective praise of God? The Gemara responds: That is not the reason that women and slaves were prohibited from forming a zimmun together. Rather, it is different there, as the Sages were concerned with regard to women and slaves joining together due to promiscuity.

3 women, and also 3 slaves, but not two women or two slaves that join together with 2 men because men have what women and slaves don't have (in terms of a Chiyuv), because women don't talk about Brit, because they were never part of it, and slaves can't say our inheritance.

Three that ate together as one are required to make a zimun:

Its implied from here that women may form a zimun on their own; but its a rishus (optional) and not a chiuv (obligatory).

Tosfot brings up a story of one of the Tosafists, Rav Avraham, that his daughters would form their own Zimun.

“Because the Sages did not want to obligate them in Zimmun when they are by themselves, because it is not so common for them to be proficient in the Zimmun blessing.”

The prevalent custom is that like the way Rashi and Tosfot Paskin (that Zimun is a reshut), and we have never heard of women forming a Zimun for themselves.

(6) ​Women and slaves and minors do not join a Zimun with them [men], but they can form a Zimun for themselves. There shouldn't be a group of women and slaves and minors that form a Zimun together, due to the promiscuity with slaves, but women may form a Zimun for themselves, and slaves may form a Zimun for themselves, only if they don't make a Zimun with the name [the name of God].

(7) Women may form a Zimun for themselves, but is a Reshut.

“It is appropriate for every man to instruct the women of his household that they should say the zimun amongst themselves when three [women] eat together.”