Save "Talmud Tuesdays - Session 107
"
Talmud Tuesdays - Session 107
אָמְרוּ לוֹ תַּלְמִידָיו חֲכֵים לֵיהּ בֶּן יוֹחַאי אָמַר לָהֶם תַּלְמוּד עָרוּךְ בְּפִיו שֶׁל רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר בַּר רַבִּי יוֹסֵי שֶׁפַּעַם אַחַת גָּזְרָה הַמַּלְכוּת גְּזֵרָה שֶׁלֹּא יִשְׁמְרוּ אֶת הַשַּׁבָּת וְשֶׁלֹּא יָמוּלוּ אֶת בְּנֵיהֶם וְשֶׁיִּבְעֲלוּ אֶת נִדּוֹת הָלַךְ רַבִּי רְאוּבֵן בֶּן אִיסְטְרוֹבָּלִי וְסִיפֵּר קוֹמֵי וְהָלַךְ וְיָשַׁב עִמָּהֶם אָמַר לָהֶם מִי שֶׁיֵּשׁ לוֹ אוֹיֵב יַעֲנִי אוֹ יַעֲשִׁיר אָמְרוּ לוֹ יַעֲנִי אָמַר לָהֶם אִם כֵּן לֹא יַעֲשׂוּ מְלָאכָה בַּשַּׁבָּת כְּדֵי שֶׁיַּעֲנוּ אָמְרוּ טָבֵית אָמַר לִיבְטַל וּבִטְּלוּהָ חָזַר וְאָמַר לָהֶם מִי שֶׁיֵּשׁ לוֹ אוֹיֵב יַכְחִישׁ אוֹ יַבְרִיא אָמְרוּ לוֹ יַכְחִישׁ אָמַר לָהֶם אִם כֵּן יָמוּלוּ בְּנֵיהֶם לִשְׁמוֹנָה יָמִים וְיַכְחִישׁוּ אָמְרוּ טָבֵית אָמַר וּבִטְּלוּהָ חָזַר וְאָמַר לָהֶם מִי שֶׁיֵּשׁ לוֹ אוֹיֵב יִרְבֶּה אוֹ יִתְמַעֵט אָמְרוּ לוֹ יִתְמַעֵט אִם כֵּן לֹא יִבְעֲלוּ נִדּוֹת אָמְרוּ טָבֵית אָמַר וּבִטְּלוּהָ הִכִּירוּ בּוֹ שֶׁהוּא יְהוּדִי הֶחֱזִירוּם אָמְרוּ מִי יֵלֵךְ וִיבַטֵּל הַגְּזֵרוֹת יֵלֵךְ רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן יוֹחַאי שֶׁהוּא מְלוּמָּד בְּנִסִּים וְאַחֲרָיו מִי יֵלֵךְ רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר בַּר רַבִּי יוֹסֵי אָמַר לָהֶם רַבִּי יוֹסֵי וְאִילּוּ הָיָה אַבָּא חֲלַפְתָּא קַיָּים יְכוֹלִין אַתֶּם לוֹמַר לוֹ תֵּן בִּנְךָ לַהֲרִיגָה אָמַר לָהֶם ר׳ שִׁמְעוֹן אִילּוּ הָיָה יוֹחַאי אַבָּא קַיָּים יְכוֹלִין אַתֶּם לוֹמַר לוֹ תֵּן בִּנְךָ לַהֲרִיגָה אֲמַר לְהוּ רַבִּי יוֹסֵי אֲנָא אָזְלִין דִּלְמָא עָנֵישׁ לֵיהּ רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן דְּקָא מִסְתְּפֵינָא קַבֵּיל עֲלֵיהּ דְּלָא לִיעְנְשֵׁיהּ אֲפִילּוּ הָכִי עַנְשֵׁיהּ כְּשֶׁהָיוּ מְהַלְּכִין בַּדֶּרֶךְ נִשְׁאֲלָה שְׁאֵלָה זוֹ בִּפְנֵיהֶם מִנַּיִן לְדַם הַשֶּׁרֶץ שֶׁהוּא טָמֵא עִקֵּם פִּיו רַבִּי אֶלְעָזָר בַּר רַבִּי יוֹסֵי וְאָמַר וְזֶה לָכֶם הַטָּמֵא אֲמַר לֵיהּ רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן מֵעֲקִימַת שְׂפָתֶיךָ אַתָּה נִיכָּר שֶׁתַּלְמִיד חָכָם אַתָּה אַל יַחְזוֹר הַבֵּן אֵצֶל אָבִיו יָצָא לִקְרָאתוֹ בֶּן תְּמַלְיוֹן רְצוֹנְכֶם אָבוֹא עִמָּכֶם בָּכָה רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן וְאָמַר מַה שִּׁפְחָה שֶׁל בֵּית אַבָּא נִזְדַּמֵּן לָהּ מַלְאָךְ שָׁלֹשׁ פְּעָמִים וַאֲנִי לֹא פַּעַם אַחַת יָבֹא הַנֵּס מִכׇּל מָקוֹם קְדֵים הוּא עַל בִּבְרַתֵּיהּ דְּקֵיסָר כִּי מְטָא הָתָם אָמַר בֶּן תְּמַלְיוֹן צֵא בֶּן תְּמַלְיוֹן צֵא וְכֵיוָן דִּקְרוֹ לֵיהּ נְפַק אֲזַל אֲמַר לְהוֹן שְׁאִילוּ כׇּל מָה דְּאִית לְכוֹן לְמִישְׁאַל וְעַיְּילִינְהוּ לְגִנְזֵיהּ לִשְׁקוֹל כֹּל דְּבָעוּ אַשְׁכַּחוּ הָהוּא אִיגְּרָא שַׁקְלוּהָ וּקְרָעוּהָ
Rabbi Matya ben Ḥarash’s students said to him in amazement: How wise is Rabbi Shimon ben Yoḥai! Rabbi Matya ben Ḥarash said to them: This source is not his own, as it is a set tradition in the mouth of Rabbi Elazar bar Rabbi Yosei, and Rabbi Shimon ben Yoḥai learned it from him. Rabbi Matya ben Ḥarash provided the background for this claim. As, on one occasion the gentile monarchy issued a decree that the Jewish people may not observe Shabbat, and that they may not circumcise their sons, and that they must engage in intercourse with their wives when they are menstruating. Rabbi Reuven ben Isterobeli went and cut his hair in a komei hairstyle,which was common only among the gentiles, and he went and sat with the gentiles when they were discussing these three decrees. He said to them: One who has an enemy, does he want his enemy to become poor or to become rich? They said to him: He wants his enemy to become poor. Rabbi Reuven ben Isterobeli said to them: If so, with regard to the Jewish people as well, isn’t it better that they will not perform labor on Shabbat in order that they will become poor? The gentiles said: That is a good claim that he said; let us nullify our decree. And they indeed nullified it. Again Rabbi Reuven ben Isterobeli spoke to them and said: One who has an enemy, does he want his enemy to become weak or to become healthy? They said to him: He wants his enemy to become weak. Rabbi Reuven ben Isterobeli said to them: If so, with regard to the Jewish people as well, isn’t it better that they circumcise their sons after eight days and thereby cause them to become weak? The gentiles said: That is a good claim that he said, and they nullified their decree. Once again Rabbi Reuven ben Isterobeli spoke to them and said: One who has an enemy, does he want his enemy to multiply or to decrease? They said to him: He wants his enemy to decrease. Rabbi Reuven ben Isterobeli said to them: If so, with regard to the Jewish people as well, isn’t it better that they do not engage in intercourse with their wives when they are menstruating? The gentiles said: That is a good claim that he said, and they nullified their decree. A short time later they recognized that Rabbi Reuven ben Isterobeli was a Jew, and they realized that he had fooled them to the advantage of the Jewish people. They therefore arose and reinstated all of their decrees. The Sages then said: Who will go and nullify these decrees? Let Rabbi Shimon ben Yoḥai go to Rome, as he is accustomed to experiencing miracles. And who shall go after him, i.e., with him? Rabbi Elazar bar Rabbi Yosei. When Rabbi Yosei, Rabbi Elazar’s father, heard this suggestion, he said to the Sages: But if Abba Ḥalafta, my father, were alive, would you be able to say to him: Give your son to be killed? If so, how can you ask me to send my son to Rome, where he is likely to be killed? Rabbi Shimon said to the Sages: If Yoḥai, my father, were alive, would you be able to say to him: Give your son to be killed? Nevertheless, I am prepared to risk my life and go to Rome, and if so, Rabbi Elazar bar Rabbi Yosei should accompany me. Upon hearing this, Rabbi Yosei said to the Sages: If so, I will go in place of my son. I do not want him to go with Rabbi Shimon ben Yoḥai, as this is what I fear: My son Elazar is young and quick to answer, and I am concerned lest Rabbi Shimon, who is hot-tempered, will become angry with him and punish him. Rabbi Shimon accepted upon himself that he would not punish Rabbi Elazar. The Gemara notes that even so, Rabbi Shimon did punish him while they were on their journey. Why did Rabbi Shimon end up punishing Rabbi Elazar? When they were walking on the road, this following question was asked before them: From where is it derived with regard to blood of a creeping animal that it is impure? Rabbi Elazar bar Rabbi Yosei twisted his mouth to whisper and said: It is derived from the verse: “And these are they that are impure for you among the creeping animals” (Leviticus 11:29). Although Rabbi Elazar tried to whisper so that Rabbi Shimon would not hear, Rabbi Shimon said to him: From the twisting of your mouth and your answer it is clear that you are a Torah scholar. Nevertheless, it is prohibited for a student to issue a ruling of halakha in the presence of his teacher. Therefore, I curse you that the son will not return from this journey to his father. The Gemara continues the story: As they were journeying, a demon named ben Temalyon emerged to greet them. He said to them: Do you wish that I will join you and come with you in order to help nullify this decree? When he saw that a demon was coming to help save the Jewish people, Rabbi Shimon cried and said: What, even for a maidservant of my father’s home, Hagar the Egyptian, who was Abraham’s handmaid, an angel was made available to appear to her three times to help her. Each of the three mentions of “and the angel of the Lord said unto her” (Genesis 16:9–11) in the story of Hagar is understood as a reference to a different angel. But I apparently do not deserve assistance from an angel even one time, but only help from a demon. In any case, let the miracle come and save the Jewish people, even if only through a demon. The demon ben Temalyon went before them and ascended into the emperor’s daughter and possessed her. When Rabbi Shimon ben Yoḥai arrived there, the emperor’s palace, he said: Ben Temalyon, emerge! Ben Temalyon, emerge! And once Rabbi Shimon called to him, ben Temalyon emerged and left the emperor’s daughter, and she was cured. When the emperor saw that Rabbi Shimon had cured his daughter, he said to them: Ask from me any reward that you want to ask. And he took them up to his treasury to take whatever they wanted. They found that letter there that contained the decrees against the Jewish people, and they took it and tore it up, and thereby nullified the decrees.
עשרה דברים שאל אלכסנדרוס מוקדון את זקני הנגב אמר להן מן השמים לארץ רחוק או ממזרח למערב אמרו לו ממזרח למערב תדע שהרי חמה במזרח הכל מסתכלין בה חמה במערב הכל מסתכלין בה חמה באמצע רקיע אין הכל מסתכלין בה וחכמים אומרים זה וזה כאחד שוין שנאמר (תהלים קג, יא) כגבוה שמים על הארץ [וגו'] כרחוק מזרח ממערב ואי חד מינייהו נפיש נכתוב תרווייהו כי ההוא דנפיש ואלא חמה באמצע רקיע מ"ט אין הכל מסתכלין בה משום דקאי להדיא ולא כסי ליה מידי אמר להן שמים נבראו תחלה או הארץ אמרו שמים נבראו תחלה שנא' (בראשית א, א) בראשית ברא אלהים את השמים ואת הארץ אמר להן אור נברא תחלה או חשך אמרו לו מילתא דא אין לה פתר ונימרו ליה חשך נברא תחלה דכתיב (בראשית א, ב) והארץ היתה תהו ובהו וחשך והדר ויאמר אלהים יהי אור ויהי אור סברי דילמא אתי לשיולי מה למעלה ומה למטה מה לפנים ומה לאחור אי הכי שמים נמי לא נימרו ליה מעיקרא סבור אקראי בעלמא הוא דקא שייל כיון דחזו דקהדר שאיל סברי לא נימא ליה דילמא אתי לשיולי מה למעלה מה למטה מה לפנים ומה לאחור אמר להם אידין מתקרי חכים אמרו ליה איזהו חכם הרואה את הנולד אמר להם אידין מתקרי גבור אמרו לו איזהו גבור הכובש את יצרו אמר להן אידין מתקרי עשיר אמרו ליה איזהו עשיר השמח בחלקו אמר להן מה יעביד איניש ויחיה אמרו ליה ימית עצמו מה יעביד איניש וימות יחיה את עצמו אמר להן מה יעביד איניש ויתקבל על ברייתא אמרו יסני מלכו ושלטן אמר להו דידי טבא מדידכו ירחם מלכו ושלטן ויעבד טיבו עם בני אינשא אמר להן בימא יאי למידר או ביבשתא יאי למידר אמרו ליה ביבשתא יאי למידר דהא כל נחותי ימא לא מיתבא דעתיהון עד דסלקין ליבשתא אמר להן אידין מנכון חכים יתיר אמרו לו כולנא כחדא שווין דהא כל מילתא דאמרת לנא בחד פתרנא לך אמר להן מה דין אתריסתון לקבלי אמרו ליה סטנא נצח אמר להן הא אנא מקטילנא יתכון בגזירת מלכין אמרו ליה שלטן ביד מלכא ולא יאי למלכא כזב מיד אלביש יתהון לבושין דארגוון ושדי מניכא דדהבא על צואריהון אמר להן בעינא דאיזל למדינת אפריקי אמרו ליה לא מצית אזלת דפסקי הרי חשך אמר להן לא סגיא דלא אזלינא אמטו הכי משיילנא לכו אלא מאי אעביד אמרו ליה אייתי חמרי לובאי דפרשי בהברא ואייתי קיבורי דמתני וקטר בהאי גיסא דכי אתית (באורחא) נקטת בגוייהו ואתית לאתרך עבד הכי ואזל מטא לההוא מחוזא דכוליה נשי בעי למיעבד קרבא בהדייהו אמרו ליה אי קטלת לן יאמרו נשי קטל אי קטילנא לך יאמרו מלכא דקטלוהו נשי אמר להן אייתו לי נהמא אייתו ליה נהמא דדהבא אפתורא דדהבא אמר להו מי אכלי אינשי נהמא דדהבא אמרו ליה אלא אי נהמא בעית לא הוה לך באתרך נהמא למיכל דשקלית ואתית להכא כי נפיק ואתי כתב אבבא דמחוזא אנא אלכסנדרוס מוקדון הויתי שטייא עד דאתיתי למדינת אפריקי דנשיא ויליפת עצה מן נשיא כי שקיל ואתי יתיב אההוא מעיינא קא אכיל נהמא הוו בידיה גולדני דמלחא בהדי דמחוורי להו נפל בהו ריחא אמר ש"מ האי עינא מגן עדן אתי איכא דאמרי שקל מהנהו מיא טרא באפיה איכא דאמרי אידלי כוליה עד דמטא לפתחא דגן עדן רמא קלא פתחו לי בבא אמרו ליה (תהלים קיח, כ) זה השער לה' וגו' אמר להון אנא נמי מלכא אנא מיחשב חשיבנא הבו לי מידי יהבו ליה גולגלתא חדא אתייה תקליה לכוליה דהבא וכספא דידיה בהדיה לא הוה מתקליה אמר להון לרבנן מאי האי אמרי גולגלתא לעינא דבישרא ודמא דלא קא שבע אמר להו ממאי דהכי הוא שקלי קלילי עפרא וכסייה לאלתר תקלא דכתיב (משלי כז כ) שאול ואבדון לא תשבענה וגו'
§ With regard to the position of the sun, the Gemara relates that Alexander of Macedon asked the Elders of the Negev about ten matters. He said to them: Is the distance from the heavens to the earth further, or is the distance from east to west further? They said to him: From east to west is a greater distance. Know that this is so, as when the sun is in the east, everyone looks at it without hurting their eyes, and when the sun is in the west, everyone looks at it without hurting their eyes. By contrast, when the sun is in the middle of the sky, no one looks at it, as it would hurt their eyes. This shows that the sun’s place in the middle of the sky is not as far from the earth as its remote positions in the extreme east and west. But the Sages say: This distance and that distance are equal, as it is stated: “For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is His kindness toward them that fear Him. As far as the east is from the west, so far has He removed our transgressions from us” (Psalms 103:11–12). The verses compare the extent of God’s kindness and His removal of transgressions to vast expanses. And if one of the distances is greater than the other, let the verse write that both of God’s enumerated attributes are like the measure that is greater. But if so, with regard to the sun in the middle of the sky, what is the reason that no one looks at it? It is because it stands exposed and nothing covers it, whereas it is partially screened when it is in the east or the west. Alexander continued to ask questions of the Elders of the Negev. He said to them: Were the heavens created first or was the earth created first? They said: The heavens were created first, as it is stated: “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” (Genesis 1:1). He said to them: Was the light created first, or was the darkness created first? They said to him: This matter has no solution, as the verses do not indicate an answer. The Gemara asks: But let them say to him that the darkness was created first, as it is written: “Now the earth was unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep” (Genesis 1:2), and only then does it state: “And God said: Let there be light. And there was light” (Genesis 1:3). Why did they not say that the darkness was created first? The Gemara answers that the Elders maintained: We must not answer this question, lest he come to ask questions about Creation that may not be discussed, i.e., what is above the firmament and what is below the earth, what was before Creation, and what will be after the end of the world (see Ḥagiga 11b). The Gemara asks: If so, if the Elders were concerned about such proscribed questions, then with regard to the creation of heaven as well, they should not have said anything to him. Why did they answer the question about heaven, but not the one about darkness? The Gemara answers that initially they assumed: It is merely incidental that he is asking about the creation of the universe, and therefore there is no need for caution. But once they saw that he again asked about the same general matter, they maintained: Let us not tell him an answer, lest he come to ask: What is above the firmament and what is below the earth, what was before Creation, and what will be after the end of the world? Alexander said to the Elders: Who is truly worthy of being called wise? They said to him, citing a tradition (see Avot 2:9): Who is the wise person? The one who sees and anticipates the consequences of his behavior. He said to them: Who is truly worthy of being called mighty? They said to him, again citing a tradition (see Avot 4:1): Who is the mighty person? The one who masters his desire. He said to them: Who is worthy of being called wealthy? They said to him: Who is the wealthy person? The one who is pleased with his own portion (see Avot 4:1). He said to them: What must a man do and thereby ensure that he will live? They said to him: Such a man must figuratively kill himself, by living moderately. Alexander further inquired: What must a man do and ensure that he will die? They said to him: Such a man must keep himself alive, i.e., lead an extravagant and indulgent life. He said to them: What must a man do and ensure that he will be accepted by people? They said to Alexander: He must hate the king and the authorities and avoid becoming too close to those in power. Alexander rejected their answer and said to them: My advice for gaining people’s favor is better than yours. One who wants to be accepted must love the king and the authorities, but he must use his connections to perform beneficial acts for people. He said to them: Is it better for a person to live at sea, or is it better to live on dry land? They said to him: It is better to live on dry land, as all seafarers, their minds are constantly unsettled until they reach the dry land. He said to them: Who among you is wiser than the others? They said to him: We are all equal in wisdom, as every matter that you say to us, we solve for you unanimously. He said to them: What is the substance of this stance, by which you, the Jewish people, oppose me? Since you are my subjects, and my people constitute the majority, you should concede that our lifestyle is superior. They said to him: Your dominance is inconsequential, as sometimes even the Satan is victorious, by convincing people to act in a manner that is clearly incorrect. He said to them: Consequently, due to your insolence, I am executing you by the edict of kings. They said to him: Certainly, the authority is in the hand of the king to execute as you wish; but falsehood is unbecoming for the king, and you have pledged not to harm us. Immediately, Alexander dressed them in garments of purple and placed golden chains [menaykha] upon their necks. When Alexander was preparing to part from the Elders of the Negev, he said to them: I want to go to wage war against the country of Africa [Afriki]; what do you recommend? They said to him: You will be unable to go there, as the Mountains of Darkness block the passes. He said to them: It is not possible for me not to go; and it is due to this reason that I ask you to advise me. Rather than refraining from my campaign, what might I do to cross the Mountains of Darkness? They said to him: Bring Libyan donkeys that walk even in the darkness [behavra], and these animals will guide you through those passes. And bring coils of rope, and tie one end of rope on this near side of the mountains, as you are about to enter there, so that when you come to return by the same path, you may take hold of the ropes left from your initial march, and, following them, you will come back to your place. Alexander did this and went on his campaign. He came to a certain town whose entire population was women, and he wanted to wage battle against them. The women said to him: It is not in your interest to fight us. If you kill us, people will say: Alexander kills women; and if we kill you, people will say: Alexander is the king whom women killed in battle. Instead of fighting them, Alexander said to them: Bring me bread. They brought him bread of gold, upon a table of gold. Alexander said to the women: Do people eat bread of gold? They said to him: But if all you wanted was actual bread, didn’t you have bread to eat in your own place? It was not for bread that you took up a campaign and toiled and came here. You must have come to increase your wealth. When Alexander left and came back to his land, he wrote upon the gate of the town: I, Alexander of Macedon, was a fool until I came to the country of Africa of women, and I learned sense from women. § With regard to Alexander, the Gemara relates: When he took himself and went on his way, he sat at a certain spring and was eating bread. He had salted fish [guldenei] in his hands, and while he cleansed them of their excessive salt, a particularly pleasant fragrance fell upon them. Alexander said to himself: I may conclude from this event that this spring comes from the Garden of Eden. There are those who say: He took from those waters and washed his face. And there are those who say: He ascended along the length of the entire spring until he reached the entrance of the Garden of Eden. He raised a loud voice, calling out: Open the gate for me! The sentry of the Garden of Eden said to him: “This is the gate of the Lord; the righteous shall enter into it” (Psalms 118:20). Since you are not righteous, you may not enter. He said to them: I too am worthy, as I am a king; I am very important. If I will not be admitted, at least give me something from inside. They gave him one eyeball. He brought it and he weighed all the gold and silver that he had against the eyeball, and yet the riches did not balance against the eyeball’s greater weight. He said to the Sages: What is this? Why does this eyeball outweigh everything? They said: It is the eyeball of a mortal person of flesh and blood, which is not satisfied ever. He said to them: From where do you know that this is the reason for the unbalanced scale? The Sages answered him: Take a small amount of dirt and cover the eye. He did so, and it was immediately balanced by its proper counterweight. The eye is never satisfied while it can see, as it is written: “The netherworld and destruction are never satiated; so the eyes of man are never satiated” (Proverbs 27:20).