Framing Questions:
Has anyone here learnt Gemara before and what has your expirience with it been?
How does it make you feel knowing that women's rights towards Jewish education are still being dictated by ancient male opinions?
Case Presented in the Mishnah: A woman is suspected of committing adultery and is therefore forced to drink a potion that will kill her if she is guilty of this sin. The Mishna (Sotah 3:4) states that "her face turns green and her eyes bulge, and her skin becomes full of protruding veins". However, if she knows Talmud than it will delay the punishment and she will not die immediatly.
מִכָּאן אוֹמֵר בֶּן עַזַּאי, חַיָּב אָדָם לְלַמֵּד אֶת בִּתּוֹ תוֹרָה, שֶׁאִם תִּשְׁתֶּה, תֵּדַע שֶׁהַזְּכוּת תּוֹלָה לָהּ. רַבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר אוֹמֵר, כָּל הַמְלַמֵּד אֶת בִּתּוֹ תוֹרָה, כְּאִלּוּ מְלַמְּדָהּ תִּפְלוּת.
From here Ben Azzai states: A person is obligated to teach his daughter Torah, so that if she drinks and does not die immediately, she will know that some merit she has delayed punishment for her. Rabbi Eliezer says: Anyone who teaches his daughter Torah is teaching her promiscuity [tiflut].
Argument between Ben Azzai and Rabbi Eliezer about whether we want to teach the women talmud in order to protect them or if we can prevent them from ever sinning by not teaching them at all.
Discussion Questions
What is the significance of having a case that specifically addresses a women for her sexual relationships as the place where we decide whether she can learn talmud?
What does this teach you about women's obligation or right to learn?
אוֹמֵר בֶּן עַזַּאי חַיָּיב אָדָם לְלַמֵּד אֶת וְכוּ׳ רַבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר אוֹמֵר כׇּל הַמְלַמֵּד אֶת בִּתּוֹ תּוֹרָה מְלַמְּדָהּ תִּיפְלוּת תִּיפְלוּת סָלְקָא דַּעְתָּךְ אֶלָּא אֵימָא כְּאִילּוּ לִמְּדָהּ תִּיפְלוּת אָמַר רַבִּי אֲבָהוּ מַאי טַעְמָא דְּרַבִּי אֱלִיעֶזֶר דִּכְתִיב אֲנִי חׇכְמָה שָׁכַנְתִּי עׇרְמָה כֵּיוָן שֶׁנִּכְנְסָה חׇכְמָה בְּאָדָם נִכְנְסָה עִמּוֹ עַרְמוּמִית וְרַבָּנַן הַאי אֲנִי חׇכְמָה מַאי עָבְדִי לֵיהּ מִיבְּעֵי לֵיהּ לְכִדְרַבִּי יוֹסֵי בְּרַבִּי חֲנִינָא דְּאָמַר רַבִּי יוֹסֵי בְּרַבִּי חֲנִינָא אֵין דִּבְרֵי תוֹרָה מִתְקַיְּימִין אֶלָּא בְּמִי שֶׁמַּעֲמִיד עַצְמוֹ עָרוֹם עֲלֵיהֶן שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר אֲנִי חׇכְמָה שָׁכַנְתִּי עׇרְמָה
§ The mishna states: From here ben Azzai states: A person is obligated to teach his daughter Torah, so that if she drinks and does not die immediately, she will know that some merit of hers has delayed her punishment. Rabbi Eliezer says: Anyone who teaches his daughter Torah is teaching her promiscuity. The Gemara asks: Could it enter your mind to say that teaching one’s daughter Torah is actually teaching her promiscuity? Rather, say: It is considered as if he taught her promiscuity. Rabbi Abbahu says: What is the reason for Rabbi Eliezer’s statement? It is as it is written: “I, wisdom, dwell with cunning” (Proverbs 8:12), which indicates that once wisdom enters into a person, cunning enters with it. Rabbi Eliezer fears that the woman will use the cunning she achieves by learning the wisdom of the Torah to engage in promiscuous behavior. The Gemara asks: And the Rabbis who disagree with him, what do they do with this verse: “I, wisdom, dwell with cunning [orma]”; how do they interpret it? The Gemara responds: He requires that verse for that which Rabbi Yosei, son of Rabbi Ḥanina, states, interpreting the word “orma” as nakedness rather than cunningness, as Rabbi Yosei, son of Rabbi Ḥanina, says: The matters of Torah do not endure except in one who stands naked for them, as it is stated: “I, wisdom, dwell with nakedness [orma]” (Proverbs 8:12). This means that wisdom dwells only in one who is prepared to give away all of his possessions for the sake of Torah study.
לימדה תיפלות ס"ד - וכי תורה תיפלות קרא לה:
כאילו - שמתוכה היא מבינה ערמומית ועושה דבריה בהצנע:
Rashi's Understanding: Rashi questions Rabbi eliezer's statement by asking "How can torah be Tiflut (promiscuity)?" He then answers his question in the second rashi by saying that from learning torah she will be taught cleverness/ trickery and will be able to act inapropriatly in modest ways.
The word עׇרְמָה is introduced.
(יא) כִּֽי־טוֹבָ֣ה חׇ֭כְמָה מִפְּנִינִ֑ים וְכׇל־חֲ֝פָצִ֗ים לֹ֣א יִֽשְׁווּ־בָֽהּ׃ (יב) אֲֽנִי־חׇ֭כְמָה שָׁכַ֣נְתִּי עׇרְמָ֑ה וְדַ֖עַת מְזִמּ֣וֹת אֶמְצָֽא׃
(11) For wisdom is better than rubies; No goods can equal her. (12) “I, Wisdom, live with Prudence;I attain knowledge and foresight.
Quick Recap: The word Arma which is translated as promiscuity, prudence, cleverness and nakedness is described to appear any time that their is Torah. This is not something unique to women but rather impossible to avoid for anyone unless they are willing to give up all of their possessions for Torah.
Discussion Questions:
What does this imply about women's ability to learn Talmud?
What does this Imply about Torah learning in General?
The word Arma also appears in Bereshit chapter 3 in the story where Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. Here again, this word represents nakedness and knowledge.
וְהַנָּחָשׁ֙ הָיָ֣ה עָר֔וּם מִכֹּל֙ חַיַּ֣ת הַשָּׂדֶ֔ה אֲשֶׁ֥ר עָשָׂ֖ה יְהֹוָ֣ה אֱלֹהִ֑ים וַיֹּ֙אמֶר֙ אֶל־הָ֣אִשָּׁ֔ה אַ֚ף כִּֽי־אָמַ֣ר אֱלֹהִ֔ים לֹ֣א תֹֽאכְל֔וּ מִכֹּ֖ל עֵ֥ץ הַגָּֽן׃ וַתֹּ֥אמֶר הָֽאִשָּׁ֖ה אֶל־הַנָּחָ֑שׁ מִפְּרִ֥י עֵֽץ־הַגָּ֖ן נֹאכֵֽל׃ וּמִפְּרִ֣י הָעֵץ֮ אֲשֶׁ֣ר בְּתוֹךְ־הַגָּן֒ אָמַ֣ר אֱלֹהִ֗ים לֹ֤א תֹֽאכְלוּ֙ מִמֶּ֔נּוּ וְלֹ֥א תִגְּע֖וּ בּ֑וֹ פֶּן־תְּמֻתֽוּן׃ וַיֹּ֥אמֶר הַנָּחָ֖שׁ אֶל־הָֽאִשָּׁ֑ה לֹֽא־מ֖וֹת תְּמֻתֽוּן׃ כִּ֚י יֹדֵ֣עַ אֱלֹהִ֔ים כִּ֗י בְּיוֹם֙ אֲכׇלְכֶ֣ם מִמֶּ֔נּוּ וְנִפְקְח֖וּ עֵֽינֵיכֶ֑ם וִהְיִיתֶם֙ כֵּֽאלֹהִ֔ים יֹדְעֵ֖י ט֥וֹב וָרָֽע׃ וַתֵּ֣רֶא הָֽאִשָּׁ֡ה כִּ֣י טוֹב֩ הָעֵ֨ץ לְמַאֲכָ֜ל וְכִ֧י תַֽאֲוָה־ה֣וּא לָעֵינַ֗יִם וְנֶחְמָ֤ד הָעֵץ֙ לְהַשְׂכִּ֔יל וַתִּקַּ֥ח מִפִּרְי֖וֹ וַתֹּאכַ֑ל וַתִּתֵּ֧ן גַּם־לְאִישָׁ֛הּ עִמָּ֖הּ וַיֹּאכַֽל׃ וַתִּפָּקַ֙חְנָה֙ עֵינֵ֣י שְׁנֵיהֶ֔ם וַיֵּ֣דְע֔וּ כִּ֥י עֵֽירֻמִּ֖ם הֵ֑ם וַֽיִּתְפְּרוּ֙ עֲלֵ֣ה תְאֵנָ֔ה וַיַּעֲשׂ֥וּ לָהֶ֖ם חֲגֹרֹֽת׃
Now the serpent was the shrewdest of all the wild beasts that God יהוה had made. It said to the woman, “Did God really say: You shall not eat of any tree of the garden?” The woman replied to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the other trees of the garden. It is only about fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden that God said: ‘You shall not eat of it or touch it, lest you die.’” And the serpent said to the woman, “You are not going to die, but God knows that as soon as you eat of it your eyes will be opened and you will be like divine beings who know good and bad.” When the woman saw that the tree was good for eating and a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable as a source of wisdom, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave some to her husband, and he ate. Then the eyes of both of them were opened and they perceived that they were naked; and they sewed together fig leaves and made themselves loincloths.
This story seems like it could be the reason for why Rabbi Eliezer equates women's knowledge with sex. Immidiatly following this scene, Adam and Eve have sex.
Discussion Questions:
What do you think the connection is between the use of the world Arum here and in the Gemara?
Do you think that Chava's sin should be used to deem as women as incapable of having knowledge without sex?
Rabbi Eliezer Vs Rabanan
- minority vs majority opinion, we always follow rabanan
- bring tosfot and show even his son was pro learning
Mishna in nedarim that allows for torah learning equivalent to men which shows that rabbi Eliezers opinion is not enough to prohibit women.
Overview of "Can Women Learn?"
There are two different aspects of changing halachot in Judiasm.
1. How big is the problem?
2. How strongly rooted in the Torah is the halacha.
In the case of women's learning the halacha is very problemetic as it continues the sexism that is being combated in all other aspects of society. It is demeaning towards jewish women and in some cases can turn them away from Judiasm. Also as we can see from the tanaaic sources, the foundation for the prohibition is not very strong.
It is one man using reasoning from one story to catagorize all women as incapable of seperating sex from knowledge. However, we see that fundimentally the Mishna and the Rabanan from the gemara do not see any issue with women learning.
The Shulchan Aruch and the Rambam further discuss this prohibition with reasoning that women are simple minded and incapable of understanding. We know today that that reasoning no longer applies and therefore we can come to the conclusion that women have every right to learn Talmud. I think that women have an even greater obligation to the Jewish community to learn Talmud because of all of the years of tradition that we have to fight. It is our job to demonstraight that women's intellectual abilities can contribute to the Talmud and pave the way for the future.
Closing Question: take a minute to think about for yourself. (there is no one right answer)
How important is maintaining tradition, and how important is encouraging inclusion, towards the continuation of the Jewish People?