So Stated With His Wife

(5) Yose ben Yochanan, man of Jerusalem, says, "May your home be open wide, may the poor be members of your household and do not increase conversation with the woman." They so stated with his wife; all the more so with the wife of his friend. From this, the sages said, "Any time that a man increases conversation with the woman, he causes evil to himself and neglects the words of Torah; and, in his end, he inherits Geihinam."

Rabbi Yosei HaGelili was walking along the way, and met Berurya. He said to her: On which path shall we walk in order to get to Lod? She said to him: Foolish Galilean, didn’t the Sages say: Do not talk much with women? You should have said your question more succinctly: Which way to Lod?

Found in the Zini Edition from Manuscripts

They so stated with his wife: In early editions of Mishna I found that it said "with his wife who is in Nidda", and Rashi writes that in Avot D'Rebbi Nathan, it also specifically states "with his wife who is in Nidda." But our edition states this even when his wife is pure, and so too did Rambam read it and Rabbeinu Yona. They wrote that this is from the trait of pious abstention, as it says in Meruba (Baba Kamma 82:) that the decree of immersion on those men who had an emission before they may engage in Torah or prayers was so that torah scholars should not be found continuously with their wives like roosters.

And do not talk extensively with a woman, because ultimately you will come to adultery. Rabbi Aḥa, son of Rabbi Yoshiya, says: Anyone who watches women will ultimately come to sin, and anyone who looks at the heel of a woman will have indecent children as a punishment. Rav Yosef said: And this relates to all women, including his wife when she has the status of a menstruating woman.

On a similar note, the Gemara relates that Rav Kahana entered and lay beneath Rav’s bed. He heard Rav chatting and laughing with his wife, and seeing to his needs, i.e., having relations with her. Rav Kahana said to Rav: The mouth of Abba, Rav, is like one whom has never eaten a cooked dish, i.e., his behavior was lustful.

When some time had passed, Abimelech king of the Philistines, looking out of the window, saw Isaac flirting with his wife Rebekah.

The Sage who taught that ben Azzai taught the law openly in the market held that the leniency was due to concern that the halakhot requiring ritual immersion would promote dereliction in the study of Torah. The ruling of Rabbi Yehuda ben Beteira eases the way for an individual who experienced a seminal emission to study Torah. This was also due to concern that the halakhot requiring ritual immersion would promote the suspension of procreation, as one might abstain from marital relations to avoid the immersion required thereafter. And the Sage, who taught that ben Azzai only whispered this halakha to his students, held that he did so in order that Torah scholars would not be with their wives like roosters.

(3) They so stated with his wife: It is known that the majority of talk with women is about matters of sex. Because of this, he said that increasing conversation with them is forbidden, since he "causes evil to himself." He means to say that he acquires lowly traits for his soul, and that is the abundance of desire.

(4) "and neglects the words of Torah": It is understood that he wastes time with other occupations.

(5) "and, in his end, he inherits Geihinam": because of this conversation of rebellion, and he obligates himself in the punishment.

They so stated with his wife; all the more so with the wife of his friend. (Our master and teacher [Rashi] wrote, "As it is written in the Fathers According to Rabbi Nathan), "They said [this] about his menstruant wife, all the more so regarding the wife of his fellow." It means to say, that he not increase words with his menstruant wife, lest his impulse overcomes him and he comes to a mishap; and all the more so with the wife of his fellow, about whom his impulse pressures him even more. As if they said it with the one that will be permissible for him tomorrow - and it appears to him like 'bread in his basket' - all the more so with another woman, whom the impulse desires, as the matter that it stated (Proverbs 9:17), "stolen waters are sweet." But it appears to be explained according to its simple meaning, "They so stated with his wife," not to ever accustom her to [many] words, so that she not be found with him every day. As a man should not be with his wife for his pleasure, but [rather] to fulfill the commandment; so as to distinguish between man and beast, as they said in Tractate Berakhot 22a concerning a man with a nocturnal emission, "So that they not be with their wives like chickens." And that is the trait of separation which brings one to the highest levels, as we say (Avodah Zarah 20b), "Separation brings to purity.""and neglects the words of Torah:" As the thought of Torah is not firm in his eyes so long as his heart is focused on the wife and upon her conversation, as they are two thoughts that the heart does not tolerate together.

And Rav says: Nevertheless, anyone who follows the counsel of his wife descends into Gehenna, as it is stated: “But there was none like Ahab, who did give himself over to do that which was evil in the sight of the Lord, whom Jezebel his wife incited” (I Kings 21:25). Rav Pappa said to Abaye: But don’t people say a popular proverb: If your wife is short, stoop and whisper to her and consult with her? The Gemara answers: This is not difficult, as this statement of Rav instructs that one not follow her counsel in general matters; and that proverb instructs that one follow her counsel in household matters. The Gemara presents another version of this distinction: This statement of Rav maintains that one should not follow her counsel in divine matters; and that proverb maintains that one should follow her counsel in general matters.

Do not increase conversation with the woman: Even if she is his wife, and his friend's wife goes without saying. For any time that a man increases conversation with the woman, he causes evil to himself and neglects the words of Torah; and, in his end, he inherits Geihinam.

Another explanation: Do not increase conversation with the wife. How would this occur? At the time a man goes to the study hall, and they do not give him his due respect, or he stirs up strife with his colleague, he should not say "This and this was the argument with my colleague. I said such and such, and such and such he told me, for it shames him, it shames his wife, and it shames his friend. For she will take his side, [so] she will go and gossip about the matter. When his friend hears, he will say "Woe is me, for the words between him and me, he went and told to his wife." It is found that the man shamed himself, shamed him wife, and shamed the friend.