Zevachim 87aזבחים פ״ז א
The William Davidson Talmudתלמוד מהדורת ויליאם דוידסון
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87aפ״ז א

חצות שני עוכלתן רב חסדא אמר עמוד השחר עוכלתן

The second midnight, i.e., midnight of the following night, renders them consumed, and if they were dislodged from the altar thereafter they are not returned. Rav Ḥisda says: Dawn following the first evening renders them consumed, and if they were dislodged from the altar thereafter they are not returned.

אמרי בי רב מאי טעמא דרב חסדא ומה חצות שאין עושה לינה עושה עיכול עמוד השחר שעושה לינה אינו דין שעושה עיכול

They say in the school of Rav: What is the reasoning of Rav Ḥisda, who says that dawn renders these limbs consumed? It is the following a fortiori inference: And if midnight, which does not cause the disqualification of being left overnight with regard to limbs that were left off the altar until that time, still causes consumption, i.e., limbs burned on the altar until midnight are considered entirely consumed, then certainly with regard to dawn, which causes the disqualification of being left overnight with regard to limbs that were not left off the altar until that time, isn’t it logical that it causes consumption?

פירשו קודם חצות והחזירן לאחר עמוד השחר רבה אמר חצות שני עוכלתן רב חסדא אמר אין בהן עיכול לעולם

These amora’im also dispute the halakha in a case where the limbs separated from the altar before midnight and were returned to the altar after dawn: Rabba says that the second midnight renders them consumed, and if they separated after this time they are not returned. Rav Ḥisda says: Since these limbs were not returned to the altar by dawn, they are never subject to consumption through the passage of time. Rather, they are returned to the altar and allowed to burn until they are reduced to ash. These two disputes between Rabba and Rav Ḥisda indicate that both agree that limbs not on the altar by midnight are not considered consumed.

מתקיף לה רב יוסף ומאן לימא לן דחצות בראש המזבח משויא להו עיכול דילמא כל היכא דמשכחא להו משויא להו עיכול שלחו מתם הלכתא כרב יוסף

Rav Yosef objects to this: And who shall say to us that midnight, specifically when the limbs are at the top of the altar, effects for them consumption? Perhaps anywhere that the limbs are found, midnight effects for them consumption. The Gemara notes: They sent from there, i.e., Eretz Yisrael, that the halakha is in accordance with the opinion of Rav Yosef, i.e., the passing of midnight renders all limbs consumed, regardless of their location at that time.

איתמר נמי א"ר חייא בר אבא פירשו קודם חצות והחזירן אחר חצות לא נהנין ולא מועלין וכן תנא בר קפרא פירשו קודם חצות והחזירן לאחר חצות יוצאין מידי מעילה

It was also stated that Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Abba says: In the case of limbs that separated from upon the altar before midnight and were returned to the altar after midnight, one may not benefit from them ab initio, but if one benefited from them after the fact he is not liable for misuse of consecrated property, since the mitzva of burning is considered fulfilled after midnight has passed. And bar Kappara also taught: If they separated from upon the altar before midnight and were returned to the altar after midnight, the limbs are removed from being subject to liability for misuse of consecrated property.

א"ל רב פפא לאביי וכי מאחר דשלחו מתם הילכתא כרב יוסף וא"ר חייא בר אבא וכן תני בר קפרא רבה ורב חסדא במאי פליגי אמר ליה בשמנים

Rav Pappa said to Abaye: And since they sent from there that the halakha is in accordance with the opinion of Rav Yosef that midnight effects consumption even for those items left off the altar, and Rav Ḥiyya bar Abba says this as well, and bar Kappara also teaches that this is the halakha, then with regard to what do Rabba and Rav Ḥisda disagree? Abaye said to him: They disagree with regard to fatty limbs, whose consumption is delayed due to their surrounding fat, and consequently midnight may not effect consumption for these limbs.

בעא מיניה רבא מרבה לינה מועלת בראשו של מזבח או אינה מועלת בראשו של מזבח היכי דמי אילימא דלא ירדו השתא לנו בעזרה אמרת דלא ירדו בראשו של מזבח מיבעיא

§ Rava raises a dilemma before Rabba: Is the disqualification of being left overnight effective in disqualifying limbs that are situated at the top of the altar at dawn but were not placed on the pyre, or is it not effective in disqualifying limbs that are at the top of the altar but were not placed on the pyre? The Gemara clarifies: What are the circumstances? If we say that the limbs have not descended from the altar, then the halakha should be obvious: Now that with regard to limbs that were left overnight in the Temple courtyard, you said in the mishna (84a) that if they ascended upon the altar they shall not descend, then with regard to limbs left on top of the altar, is it necessary to teach that they shall not descend?

ואלא דירדו לשלחן מדמינן לה דתנן אפילו הן על השלחן ימים רבים אין בכך כלום או דילמא לקרקע מדמינן

But rather, the dilemma is in a case where they were left overnight on top of the altar and descended from it after dawn. Do we compare limbs left overnight on top of the altar to the Table of the shewbread, and they are therefore returned, as we learned in a mishna (Menaḥot 100a): Even if loaves of shewbread, which are supposed to be replaced every Shabbat, remained on the Table many days beyond Shabbat, there is nothing wrong with that, and the loaves are not disqualified by being left overnight. Or perhaps we compare the limbs to flesh left on the ground of the Temple courtyard, which is disqualified when left there until dawn, and they are not returned.

א"ל אין לינה בראשו של מזבח קיבלה מיניה או לא ת"ש דאיתמר איברים שלנו בעזרה מקטר והולך כל הלילה לן בראשו של מזבח מקטר והולך לעולם

Rabba said to him: There is no disqualification of limbs that are left overnight at the top of the altar. The Gemara asks: Did Rava accept this response from Rabba or not? The Gemara suggests: Come and hear a proof from that which was stated: With regard to limbs that were left overnight in the Temple courtyard, the priest may place them upon the altar to burn them all night long provided that they are placed there before dawn. With regard to a limb that was left overnight at the top of the altar, the priest may burn it forever, i.e., no matter how much time has passed.

ירדו רבה אמר יעלו רבא אמר לא יעלו ש"מ לא קיבלה מיניה ש"מ:

With regard to limbs that were left overnight on top of the altar and then descended from it, Rabba says that they shall ascend, while Rava says that they shall not ascend. Conclude from it that Rava did not accept the response from Rabba, as he holds here that limbs are disqualified when left overnight on top of the altar. The Gemara confirms: Indeed, conclude from it that this is so.

כשם שהמזבח מקדש כו': תנו רבנן (שמות כט, לז) הנוגע במזבח אין לי אלא מזבח כבש מנין ת"ל את המזבח כלי שרת מניין ת"ל (שמות ל, כט) כל הנוגע בהם יקדש

§ The mishna teaches: Just as the altar sanctifies items, so too, the ramp and the service vessels sanctify items. With regard to this halakha, the Sages taught: The verse states: “Whatever touches the altar shall be sacred” (Exodus 29:37). From here I have derived only that the altar sanctifies items. From where is it derived that the ramp sanctifies items as well? The verse states: “And you shall anoint…the altar [et hamizbe’aḥ]” (Exodus 40:10), and the addition of the word et serves to include the ramp. With regard to service vessels, from where is it derived that they sanctify items? The verse states with regard to them: “Whatever touches them shall be sacred” (Exodus 30:29).

בעא מיניה ר"ל מר"י כלי שרת מהו שיקדשו את הפסולין א"ל תניתוה כשם שהמזבח והכבש מקדשין את הראוי להן כך כלים מקדשין

Reish Lakish raises a dilemma before Rabbi Yoḥanan: What is the halakha with regard to whether service vessels sanctify disqualified items? Rabbi Yoḥanan said to him: You learned in the mishna that just as the altar and the ramp sanctify items that are suited to them even if those items are disqualified, so too, the service vessels sanctify items placed in them.

א"ל לכתחילה ליקרב קמיבעי לי הא נמי תנינא

Reish Lakish said to him: The mishna indicates that service vessels sanctify that which is placed in them in the sense that they may no longer be redeemed even if they become disqualified. I raise the dilemma with regard to whether service vessels sanctify disqualified items such that they may be sacrificed ab initio. Rabbi Yoḥanan said to him: This also we learn in a mishna (84a):