Niddah 12bנדה י״ב ב
The William Davidson Talmudתלמוד מהדורת ויליאם דוידסון
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12bי״ב ב

א"ל סודני לא דמגניא באפיה אמר רב כהנא שאלתינהו לאינשי ביתיה דרב פפא ודרב הונא בריה דרב יהושע כי אתו רבנן מבי רב מצרכי לכו בדיקה ואמרו לי לא ולישיילינהו לדידהו דילמא אינהו קא מחמירי אנפשייהו

Rava said to Rav Pappa: Wise one [sudani]! No, won’t she be demeaned before him? It is embarrassing for her if she is awoken and has to think about whether or not she is pure. Rav Kahana says: I asked the members of the households, i.e., the wives, of Rav Pappa and of Rav Huna, son of Rav Yehoshua: When the Sages, your husbands, came home from the study hall, did they require you to perform an examination prior to intercourse? And they said to me: No. The Gemara asks: But why ask their wives? Why not ask those Sages themselves? The Gemara answers: Perhaps they might rule leniently for others, while acting stringently with themselves. Therefore, their wives were asked, to determine how the Sages conducted themselves in their personal lives.

ת"ר אשה שאין לה וסת אסורה לשמש ואין לה לא כתובה ולא פירות ולא מזונות ולא בלאות ויוציא ולא מחזיר עולמית דברי ר"מ

§ The Sages taught in a baraita: With regard to a woman who does not have a fixed menstrual cycle, she is forbidden to engage in intercourse, and she does not have the right to receive payment of her marriage contract if divorced or widowed, nor is she entitled to payment from her husband for the produce of her property that he consumed, nor is she entitled to provisions for her sustenance from his estate, nor does she get back her worn clothes or other items she brought with her to her marriage as part of her dowry. And furthermore, her husband must divorce her and he may never remarry her. This is the statement of Rabbi Meir.

רבי חנינא בן אנטיגנוס אומר משמשת בשני עדים הן עותוה הן תקנוה משום אבא חנן אמרו אוי לו לבעלה

Rabbi Ḥanina ben Antigonus says: She is permitted to engage in intercourse with her husband, but she must examine herself with two examination cloths, one prior to intercourse and one afterward. They may be to her detriment if she finds blood on the cloths, or they may lead to her betterment, since if she finds no blood she is permitted to her husband. They said in the name of Abba Ḥanan: Woe to her husband!

אסורה לשמש דילמא מקלקלת ליה ואין לה כתובה כיון דלא חזיא לביאה לית לה כתובה

The Gemara explains each clause of the baraita: She is forbidden to engage in intercourse, as perhaps she will ruin her husband if she emits blood during intercourse. And with regard to the halakha that she does not have the right to receive payment of her marriage contract, the reason is that since she is not fit for intercourse, she is not entitled to payment of her marriage contract.

ולא פירות ולא מזונות ולא בלאות תנאי כתובה ככתובה דמו

The Gemara continues its explanation: And she is not entitled to payment for the produce of her property, nor is she entitled to provisions for her sustenance from his estate, nor does she get back her worn clothes. The reason for all these is because stipulations in the marriage contract are considered like the marriage contract itself. Since she is not entitled to a marriage contract, she is likewise not entitled to these additional provisions that are stipulated in the marriage contract.

ויוציא ולא יחזיר עולמית פשיטא לא צריכא דהדרה ואתקנה מהו דתימא ליהדרה קמ"ל דזימנין דאזלא ומנסבא ומתקנא

The Gemara analyzes the next clause in the baraita: Her husband must divorce her and he may never remarry her. The Gemara asks: Isn’t that obvious? The Gemara answers: No, it is necessary to teach this in a case where her situation was subsequently amended, i.e., she established a fixed menstrual cycle. Lest you say that he may remarry her, the baraita teaches us that this is not permitted, as sometimes such a woman might go and marry someone else and her status is subsequently amended.

ואמר אילו הייתי יודע שכך היה אפילו הייתם נותנין לי מאה מנה לא הייתי מגרשה ונמצא גט בטל ובניה ממזרין

And the problem in this scenario is that her first husband might say: If I would have known that it is like this, that she would be cured, even if you would have given me one hundred times one hundred dinars to divorce her I would not have divorced her. And if so, the bill of divorce will be found to be void, and her children from her second husband will be considered mamzerim. Therefore it must be made clear to him from the outset that this divorce is final.

משום אבא חנן אמרו אוי לו לבעלה איכא דאמרי לר"מ אמר ליה דבעי לאגבויה כתובתה איכא דאמרי לרבי חנינא בן אנטיגנוס קא"ל דמקלקלת ליה

The Gemara analyzes the final clause of the baraita: They said in the name of Abba Ḥanan: Woe to her husband! Some say that he said this to Rabbi Meir, as Abba Ḥanan maintains that the husband is required to settle her payment of her marriage contract upon their divorce. And some say that he said this to Rabbi Ḥanina ben Antigonus, since Abba Ḥanan disagrees with his opinion and holds that it is forbidden to engage in intercourse with her, as perhaps she will ruin him if they engage in intercourse when she is menstruating.

אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל הלכה כר' חנינא בן אנטיגנוס ובמאי אי בעסוקה בטהרות הא אמרה שמואל חדא זימנא

Rav Yehuda says that Shmuel says: The halakha is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Ḥanina ben Antigonus. The Gemara asks: And with regard to what case did Shmuel issue this ruling of halakha? The Gemara elaborates: If it is referring to a woman who is engaged in handling ritually pure items, didn’t Shmuel already say on another occasion that a woman without a fixed menstrual cycle must examine herself prior to intercourse?

ואי בשאינה עסוקה בטהרות הא אמר כל לבעלה לא בעיא בדיקה דא"ר זירא א"ר אבא בר ירמיה אמר שמואל אשה שאין לה וסת אסורה לשמש עד שתבדוק ואוקימנא לה בעסוקה בטהרות מאן דמתני הא לא מתני הא

And if it is referring to a woman who is not engaged in handling ritually pure items, doesn’t Shmuel say that in any case where an examination is only for the purpose of intercourse with her husband, not for handling pure items, she is not required to perform an examination? As Rabbi Zeira said that Rabbi Abba bar Yirmeya says that Shmuel says: A woman who does not have a fixed menstrual cycle is forbidden to engage in intercourse until she examines herself, and we interpreted this statement as referring to cases where she is engaged in handling ritually pure items. The Gemara answers: He who teaches this does not teach that, i.e., Shmuel’s ruling is in fact referring to a woman engaged in handling pure items, and the two rulings were cited in his name by different Sages.



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