משנה: מֵאֵימָתַי הוּא חַייָב מִשֶּׁיֹּאכַל טרטימר בָּשָׂר וְיִשְׁתֶּה חֲצִי לוֹג יַיִן בָּאִיטַלְקִי. רַבִּי יוֹסֵי אוֹמֵר, מְנָה בָשָׂר וְלוֹג יָיִן. אָכַל בַּחֲבוּרַת מִצְוָה אָכַל בְּעִבּוּר הַחֹדֶשׁ אָכַל מַעֲשֵׂר שֵׁנִי בִּירוּשָׁלִַם. אָכַל נְבֵלוֹת וּטְרֵפוֹת וּשְׁקָצִים וּרְמָשִׂים. אָכַל דָּבָר שֶׁהוּא מִצְוָה וְדָבָר שֶׁהוּא עֲבֵרָה אָכַל כָּל־מַאֲכָל וְלֹא אָכַל בָּשָׂר שָׁתָה כָל־מַשְׁקֶה וְלֹא שָׁתָה יַיִן אֵינוֹ נַעֲשֶׂה בֵן סוֹרֵר וּמוֹרֶה עַד שֶׁיֹּאכַל בָּשָׂר וְיִשְׁתֶּה יַיִן שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר זוֹלֵל֭ וְסֹבֵֽא. וְאַף עַל פִּי שֶׁאֵין רְאָיָה לַדָּבָר זֵכֶר לַדָּבָר שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר אַל־תְּהִ֥י בְסוֹבְאֵי יָי֑ן בְּזוֹלְלֵי בָשָׂ֣ר לָֽמוֹ׃ MISHNAH: When is he guilty? From the moment he eats a fourfold15Greek τετραμοιρία “fourfold portion”, cf. H. and E. Guggenheimer, תרטימר בשר Sinai 83(1978) p. 191. A baraita in the Babli (Pesahim 86b, Besah25b) states that a civilized person drinks a cup of wine (a quarter log, about 130 cm3) in two sips. One becomes deviant in drinking half a log in one gulp; this is the fourfold amount of a civilized person. The “fourfold amount” of meat is defined in the Halakhah (and the Babli) as half a Roman pound. Therefore, a civilized person will eat meat in portions no larger than 1½ Roman oz. per bite. The amount mentioned in the Mishnah refers to a single bite or sip, not the total amounts consumed during a meal (Maimonides Mamrim 7:2).
The form טרטימר instead of טטרמור is not unusual since Greek words copied into Aramaic or Hebrew often exhibit metathesis if one of the consonants λμνρ is involved [H. and E. Guggenheimer, למילון התלמודי יב Lešonenu 39(1975) 59–60.] portion of meat and drinks half a log of wine. Rebbi Yose says, a mina of meat16A Greek mina of 100 drachmas, not a Semitic maneh of 60 šeqels (between 120 and 240 drachmas), cf. Note 20. and a log of wine. If he ate in a company of obligation17In modern Hebrew this is called סְעוּדַת מִצְוָה “a meal of obligation”, the festive meal at religious occasions such as weddings, circumcisions, redemption of firstborns, etc., or at the lengthening of a month18Before the publication of the calendar computations the Synhedrion, and its successor, the Academy of Tiberias, had to determine for every month whether it should have 29 or 30 days. This meeting always was the occasion of a festive meal., or ate Second Tithe in Jerusalem, or ate torn or carcass meat, abominations and crawling things, i. e., if he ate anything which either is an obligation or anything forbidden, or ate any food but not meat, or drank any drink but not wine, he does not turn into a deviant and rebellious son unless he ate meat and drank wine, since it is said: gorging and drinking to excess4Deut.21:18.. Even if it is not proof, there is a hint in what is said: Do not be among those who drink wine excessively, nor with those who are gorging themselves on meat19Prov. 23:20..
הלכה: מֵאֵימָתַי הוּא חַייָב כול׳. אָמַר רִבִּי יוּסֵי. טרטימר חֲצִי לִטְרָא הוּא. HALAKHAH: “When is he guilty,” etc. Rebbi Yose said20The Amora R. Yose determines the amount required by the Sages as half that indicated by the Tanna R. Yose, a statement ascribed in the Babli to his teacher’s teacher R. Zeˋira. His statement implies that, as a weight, a mina (100 drachmas) was identified with the pound of 12 ounces, i. e. 96 denars. Since other talmudic data indicate that as a coin, drachma in the Eastern Roman Empire was the name of the silver denar, one has to assume that mina as a weight simply was a name for the Roman pound. [D. Sperber (Roman Palestine 200–400, Money and Prices, Ramat Gan 1974) consistently writes mina for the weight and maneh for the coin. But since a talmudic מנה always denotes 100 denars, there is no reason not to read the word as Μνᾶ, מְנָה.], the fourfold portion is half a Roman pound.
אֵינוֹ חַייָב עַד שֶׁיֹּאכְלֶנּוּ מְהוּבְהָב. אֲכָלוֹ חַי כֶּלֶב הוּא. אֲכָלוֹ מְבוּשָּׁל בַּר נַשׁ הוּא. אֲכָלוֹ הסוקים מָהוּ. גִּידִּים הָרַכִּים מָה הֵן. רִבִּי יוֹחָנָן אָמַר. נִימְנִין עֲלֵיהֶן. רִבִּי שִׁמָעוֹן בֶּן לָקִישׁ אָמַר. אֵין נִימְנִין עֲלֵיהֶן. רִבִּי יַעֲקֹב בַּר אָחָא בְשֵׁם רִבִּי זְעִירָא. אִיתְפַּלְּגוֹן רִבִּי יוֹחָנָן וְרִבִּי שִׁמָעוֹן בֶּן לָקִישׁ. דְּתַנִּינָן תַּמָּן. אֵילּוּ שֶׁעוֹרוֹתֵיהֶן כִּבְשָׂרָן. אָמַר רִבִּי יוֹחָנָן. עוֹד זֶה לֹא שָׁנוּ אֶלָּא לְאִיסּוּר וּלְטומְאָה. הָא לִלְקוֹת לֹא. רִבִּי שִׁמָעוֹן בֶּן לָקִישׁ אָמַר. מִשְׁנָה תְמִימָה שָׁנָה רִבִּי. בֵּין לְאִיסּוּר בֵּין לְטוּמְאָה. מִחְלְפָה שִׁיטָּתֵיהּ דְּרִבִּי שִׁמָעוֹן בֶּן לָקִישׁ. תַּמָּן הוּא עֲבַד לָהּ בָּשָׂר. וָכָא לָא עֲבַד לָהּ בָּשָׂר. אָמַר רִבִּי יוּדָה בַּר פָּזִי. שַׁנְייָא הִיא תַמָּן שֶׁהוּא עוֹר וְסוֹפוֹ לְהַקְשׁוֹת. כָּל־שֶׁכֵּן מִחְלְפָה שִׁיטָּתֵיהּ דְּרִבִּי שִׁמָעוֹן בֶּן לָקִישׁ. וּמַה תַמָּן שֶׁסוֹפוֹ לְהַקְשׁוֹת הוּא עֲבַד לָהּ בָּשָׂר. כָּאן שֶׁאֵין סוֹפוֹ לְהַקְשׁוֹת לֹא כָל־שֶׁכֵּן. אָמַר רִבִּי אַבָּהוּ. טַעֲמָא דְרִבִּי יוּדָה בַּר פָּזִי וְאָֽכְל֥וּ אֶת־הַבָּשָׂר֭. לֹא גִידְים. He is guilty only it he ate it rare21Superficially grilled. Eating grilled meat rare is not human. In the Babli (70a) this is called “cooked and uncooked”.. If he ate it raw, he is a dog. If he ate it cooked, he is a human. If he ate cartilage22The word הסוקים is a hapax and probably corrupt. It is translated as if it were written חסוכים., what is the rule? What is the rule about soft sinews? 23This text to the end of the paragraph is a shortened form of a discussion in Pesahim7:11 (35a l. 62); the final result there and here is that the discussion is irrelevant for the rules regarding the deviant and rebellious son, which implies that for the fourfold portion nothing can be included that is not regularly counted as food.
The paschal lamb may be eaten only by persons who had subscribed to it, i. e., who were part of the group for whom the lamb was slaughtered during the afternoon of the 14th of Nisan. The lamb should be eaten in small quantities at the end of the meal; the minimum quantity per person is the volume of an average olive (כְּזַיִת). The question now arises whether barely edible parts, such as cartilage and soft sinews, can be used to fulfill the duty of eating from the paschal lamb and the number of subscribers increased accordingly. Rebbi Joḥanan said, one subscribes to them; Rebbi Simeon ben Laqish said, one does not subscribe to them. Rebbi Jacob bar Aḥa in the name of Rebbi Zeˋira: Rebbi Joḥanan and Rebbi Simeon ben Laqish disagreed about what is stated there24Mishnah Ḥulin 9:2. Mishnah 9:1 states that in general the hide of an animal is subject to the rules of impurity of food, but not to those of impurity of carcasses. Then Mishnah 2 lists some animals whose hides follow the rules of flesh in all respects (general consensus exists only for humans and domesticated pigs.) R. Johanan holds that for eating pigskin one never can be prosecuted, while R. Simeon ben Laqish holds that eating pigskin, not yet transformed into leather, is as punishable as eating pork.: “The following have their hides treated like their flesh.” Rebbi Joḥanan said, this was only said as prohibition and regarding impurity, but not for flogging. Rebbi Simeon ben Laqish said, Rebbi stated a complete Mishnah, not only for prohibition and regarding impurity25In Pesaḥim it is stated explicitly that the differences among the rabbis are about whipping offenders.. The reasoning of Rebbi Simeon ben Laqish seems inverted. There, he treats it as flesh, but here, he does not treat it as meat26“There” is Ḥulin, “here” is Pesaḥim.. Rebbi Judah bar Pazi said, there is a difference, since there one refers to skin which in the end will become hard. This emphasizes that the reasoning of Rebbi Simeon ben Laqish seems inverted! Since there, where in the end it will harden, he treats it as flesh, here where in the end it will not harden27Animal hide will become inedible; soft sinews and cartilage will remain edible after cooking., not so much more? Rebbi Abbahu28In Pesaḥim” R. Abun”. said, the reason of Rebbi Judah bar Pazi is: they shall eat the meat in that night29Ex. 12:8, a verse about the paschal lamb, irrelevant for the rules about the deviant and rebellious son., not sinews.
אָכַל בַּחֲבוּרַת מִצְוָה. אָכַל בְּעִבּוּר הַחֹדֶשׁ. אָכַל מַעֲשֵׂר שֵׁנִי בִּירוּשָׁלֵם. וְיִסְּר֣וּ אֹת֔וֹ וְאֵינֶנּוּ שׁוֹמֵעַ בְּקוֹלָם. יָצָא זֶהּ שֶׁהוּא שׁוֹמֵעַ בְּקוֹל אָבִיו שֶׁבַּשָּׁמַיִם. “If he ate in a company of obligation17In modern Hebrew this is called סְעוּדַת מִצְוָה “a meal of obligation”, the festive meal at religious occasions such as weddings, circumcisions, redemption of firstborns, etc., or at the lengthening of a month18Before the publication of the calendar computations the Synhedrion, and its successor, the Academy of Tiberias, had to determine for every month whether it should have 29 or 30 days. This meeting always was the occasion of a festive meal., or ate Second Tithe in Jerusalem.” They would discipline him, but he does not listen to their voice30A slight misquote from Deut. 21:18, for: but he does not listen to the voice of his father or his mother.. This excludes one who listens to the voice of his Father in Heaven31Cf. Qiddušin 1:2, Note 630..
אָמַר רִבִּי יוֹחָנָן. אִם הִזְכִּירוּךָ לְבוּלֵי יִהְיֶה יַרְדֵּן בַּעַל גְּבוּלְךָ. אָמַר רִבִּי יוֹחָנָן. קוּבְלִין לָרָשׁוּת לְהִיפָּטֵר מִבּוּלֵי. אָמַר רִבִּי יוֹחָנָן. לוֹוִין בְּרִיבִּית לַחֲבוּרַת מִצְוָה וּלְקִידּוּשׁ הַחוֹדֶשׁ. רִבִּי יוֹחָנָן הֲוָה עֲלִיל לִכְנִשְׁתָּא בְצַפְרָא וּמְלַקֵּט פֵּירוּרִין וַאֲכִיל וַאֲמַר. יְהֵא חֶלְקִי עִם מָאן דְּקַדֵּשׁ יַרְחָא הָכָא רוּמְשִׁית. 32This paragraph does not belong here. It is a slight reformulation of a paragraph in Mo`ed qatan 2:3 (81b l. 33). There it was stated that one is permitted to earn money on the intermediate days of a holiday in order to have more money to spend on festive meals. The connection to this Chapter is that the deviant and rebellious son is absolved if he partakes of festive meals. Rebbi Joḥanan said, if you were nominated for the city council, may the Jordan be the master of your border33Since the Roman government never allowed local taxes, it appointed rich people to the council (βουλή); these had to provide public services at their own expense. To avoid such an onerous leiturgia, one is permitted to leave the Land of Israel.. Rebbi Joḥanan said, one complains to the government to be freed from the city council34While in general one should avoid contact with Roman imperial officials, it is permitted to file complaints to make oneself undesirable, so as not to be considered for a council appointment.. Rebbi Joḥanan said, one borrows against interest for a company of obligation and the sanctification of the month. Rebbi Joḥanan used to go to the assembly hall in the morning35Before he became a member of the body fixing the calendar., collect the crumbs, and eat them, saying: May my part be with those who in the evening were sanctifying the month.
אָכַל נְבֵלוֹת וּטְרֵפוֹת שְׁקָצִים וּרְמָשִׂים. וְיִסְּר֣וּ אֹת֔וֹ וְלֹא יִשְׁמֵעַ בְּקוֹלָם. יָצָא זֶה אֲפִילוּ בְּקוֹל אָבִיו שֶׁבַּשָּׁמַיִם אֵינוֹ שׁוֹמֵעַ. “Or ate torn or carcass meat, abominations and crawling things.” They would discipline him, but he would not listen to their voice30A slight misquote from Deut. 21:18, for: but he does not listen to the voice of his father or his mother.. This excludes one who even to the voice of his Father in Heaven31Cf. Qiddušin 1:2, Note 630. does not listen36Babli 70b..