Chullin 49bחולין מ״ט ב
The William Davidson Talmudתלמוד מהדורת ויליאם דוידסון
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49bמ״ט ב

וגו' להביא חלב שעל גבי הדקין דברי רבי ישמעאל ר' עקיבא אומר להביא חלב שע"ג הקבה

the word “all” serves to include the fat that is on the small intestines; this is the statement of Rabbi Yishmael. Rabbi Akiva says: The word “all” serves to include the fat that is on the abomasum. According to Rabbi Yishmael, the fat of the abomasum is permitted.

ורמינהי את החלב אשר על הקרב ר"ש אומר מה חלב המכסה את הקרב קרום ונקלף אף כל קרום ונקלף ר"ע אומר מה חלב המכסה את הקרב תותב קרום ונקלף אף כל תותב קרום ונקלף

And the Gemara raises a contradiction from another baraita: The verse states: “The fat that covers the innards, and all the fat that is upon the innards” (Leviticus 3:3). Rabbi Shimon, i.e., Rabbi Yishmael, says: Just as the fat that covers the innards possesses a membrane, and that membrane is easily peeled off, so too, all fat possessing a membrane and whose membrane is easily peeled is forbidden, including the fat on the abomasum. Rabbi Akiva says: Just as the fat that covers the innards is spread out loosely over them, and it possesses a membrane, and the membrane is easily peeled off, so too, all fat that is spread out loosely, and possesses a membrane, and whose membrane is easily peeled, e.g., the fat on the intestines, is forbidden. The fat on the abomasum is fixed tightly and is therefore permitted. It would seem from this baraita that Rabbi Akiva and Rabbi Yishmael contradict themselves.

שלח רבין משמיה דר' יוחנן כך היא הצעה של משנה ואיפוך קמייתא

Ravin sent an answer in the name of Rabbi Yoḥanan: Such is the proper layout of the mishna, i.e., the baraita. The latter attribution of the opinions is correct, and one must reverse the attribution of opinions in the first baraita. Accordingly, Rabbi Akiva deems the fat on the intestines prohibited, while Rabbi Yishmael deems the fat on the abomasum prohibited as well.

מאי חזית דאפכת קמייתא איפוך בתרייתא שאני הכא כיון דקתני מה דווקא

The Gemara asks: What did you see that led you to reverse the first baraita? Why not reverse the second baraita instead? The Gemara responds: The second baraita here is different, since it teaches using the formula: Just as. Because it takes care to specifically provide the textual justifications for the opinions, it is presumably accurate about the attributions as well.

אי הכי כר' ישמעאל כר' עקיבא היא אמר רב נחמן בר יצחק שאמר משום אבותיו וליה לא ס"ל

The Gemara asks: If so, how can Rabbi Oshaya claim above that the priests acted in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yishmael? It was actually in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Akiva. Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak said: Rabbi Oshaya meant only that Rabbi Yishmael says the lenient opinion in the name of his forefathers, but Rabbi Yishmael himself does not hold accordingly, and he considers the fat of the abomasum forbidden.

אמר רב חלב טהור סותם טמא אינו סותם ורב ששת אומר אחד זה ואחד זה סותם

§ The Gemara discusses a connection between the issue of fats and that of tereifot: Rav says: Kosher fat effectively seals a perforation that it covers, and the animal is not rendered a tereifa. Non-kosher fat does not effectively seal a perforation, and the animal is a tereifa. And Rav Sheshet says: Both this and that fat effectively seal a perforation.

בעי רבי זירא חלב חיה מאי דוקא אמר חלב טהור סותם והאי נמי טהור הוא או דלמא משום דמהדק והאי לא מהדק

Rabbi Zeira raises a dilemma: With regard to the fat of an undomesticated animal, all of which is permitted for consumption, what is the halakha? Shall one say that Rav specifically said that kosher fat seals a perforation, and since this too, i.e., all the fat of an undomesticated animal, is kosher, it is all considered an effective seal? Or perhaps Rav specified that permitted fat of a domesticated animal seals a perforation only because it is firmly attached. But this, the fat on the innards of an undomesticated animal, is not firmly attached, and it is not an effective seal, even though it is permitted for consumption.

אמר אביי מאי תיבעי ליה נהי דשרי באכילה אהדוקי לא מהדק

Abaye said: Why does Rabbi Zeira raise this dilemma? Granted that the fat of the innards is permitted for consumption, but still, it is not firmly attached and clearly does not form an effective seal.

ההוא נקב דסתמה חלב טמא דאתא לקמיה דרבא אמר רבא למאי ניחוש לה חדא דהא אמר רב ששת חלב טמא נמי סותם ועוד התורה חסה על ממונם של ישראל א"ל רב פפא לרבא רב ואיסורא דאורייתא ואת אמרת התורה חסה על ממונן של ישראל

The Gemara relates: There was a certain perforation that was sealed by non-kosher fat that came before Rava. Rava said: With regard to what need we be concerned? First, doesn’t Rav Sheshet say: Non-kosher fat also effectively seals a perforation? And furthermore, in general, the Torah spares the money of the Jewish people, and it is appropriate to rule leniently in this regard. Rav Pappa said to Rava: But there is also the opinion of Rav that non-kosher fat does not seal a perforation, and this dispute concerns a prohibition by Torah law, and yet you say that the Torah spares the money of the Jewish people? One cannot rely on this principle to rule in accordance with the lenient opinion with regard to such matters.

מניומין כנדוקא איגלי ליה בסתקא דדובשא אתא לקמיה דרבא אמר רבא למאי ניחוש לה חדא דתנן שלשה משקים אסורים משום גילוי היין והמים והחלב ושאר כל המשקים מותרים ועוד התורה חסה על ממונם של ישראל א"ל רב נחמן בר יצחק לרבא ר' שמעון וסכנת נפשות ואת אמרת התורה חסה על ממונם של ישראל

The Gemara relates a similar episode: Manyumin the jug maker had a jug [bisteka] full of honey that was left uncovered, and he was concerned it might have been contaminated by snake venom. He came before Rava to inquire as to the halakha. Rava said: With regard to what need we be concerned? First, as we learned in a mishna (Terumot 8:4): Three liquids are prohibited due to exposure: Wine, water, and milk; and all other liquids are permitted. Honey, therefore, is permitted. And furthermore, the Torah spares the money of the Jewish people. Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak said to Rava: But there is also the opinion of Rabbi Shimon that exposed honey is prohibited, and this dispute concerns a matter of mortal danger, and yet you say that the Torah spares the money of the Jewish people?

רבי שמעון מאי היא דתניא חמשה אין בהם משום גילוי ציר וחומץ שמן ודבש ומורייס ר"ש אומר אף הן יש בהן משום גילוי וא"ר שמעון אני ראיתי נחש ששתה ציר בצידן אמרו לו שטיא הוה ואין מביאין ראיה מן השוטים

The Gemara clarifies: What is this opinion of Rabbi Shimon? As it is taught in a baraita: Five liquids are not subject to the prohibition of exposure, since snakes do not drink from them: Fish brine, vinegar, oil, honey, and fish gravy [morayes] made from fish brine mixed with oil and salt. Rabbi Shimon says: Even they are subject to prohibition due to exposure. And Rabbi Shimon said: I once saw a snake that drank fish brine in Tzaidan. The Rabbis said to him: That snake was strange, i.e., it behaved differently than other snakes, and one does not bring a proof from strange creatures.

אמר ליה אודי לי מיהת בציר דהא רב פפא ורב הונא בריה דרב יהושע ורבנן כי הוה להו גילויא שדו ליה בציר אמר ליה אודי לי מיהא בדבש דרבי שמעון בן אלעזר קאי כוותיה דתניא וכן היה ר"ש בן אלעזר אוסר בדבש

Rava said to Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak: Concede to me, at least, with regard to fish brine that it is not prohibited by exposure, as when Rav Pappa and Rav Huna, son of Rabbi Yehoshua, and the Sages would have a case of exposure of some liquid, they would cast it into fish brine. The sharpness of the brine neutralizes the snake venom. Accordingly, just as the halakha is not in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Shimon with regard to fish brine, so too it is not in accordance with his opinion with regard to honey. Rav Naḥman bar Yitzḥak said to him: Concede to me, at least, with regard to honey that it is prohibited by exposure, as Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar held in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Shimon. As it is taught in a baraita: And likewise, Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar would deem exposed honey prohibited.

אמר רב נחמן חלב העשוי ככובע אינו סותם היכא אמרי לה חיטי דכרכשא ואמרי לה טרפשא דליבא

The Gemara returns to the initial discussion with regard to fats and perforations: Rav Naḥman says: Permitted fat that is made like a hat does not effectively seal a perforation, even though it is permitted for consumption. The Gemara clarifies: Where is this fat? Some say it is the grains of fat found on the rectum, which, if perforated, renders the animal a tereifa. And some say that it is the membrane surrounding the heart, which, if perforated to the chambers, renders the animal a tereifa.

אמר רבא שמעית מיניה דרב נחמן תרתי חימצא ובר חימצא חד סתים וחד לא סתים ולא ידענא הי מינייהו רב הונא בר חיננא ורב הונא בריה דרב נחמן אמר בר חימצא סתים חימצא לא סתים אמר רב טבות וסימניך יפה כח הבן מכח האב

§ Rava said: I heard from Rav Naḥman about two fats found on the abomasum, in different places. One is called the ḥimtza and one the bar ḥimtza, meaning: Son of ḥimtza. One effectively seals a perforation of the abomasum, and one does not effectively seal a perforation of the abomasum. But I do not know which of them is which. Rav Huna bar Ḥinnana and Rav Huna, son of Rav Naḥman, said: The bar ḥimtza seals; the ḥimtza does not seal. Rav Tavot said: And your mnemonic is: The power of the son is greater than the power of the father.

הי חימצא והי בר חימצא ת"ש דאמר רב נחמן אינהו מיכל אכלי

The Gemara asks: Which is the ḥimtza and which is the bar ḥimtza? The Gemara suggests: Come and hear proof from that which Rav Naḥman says with regard to one of the fats on the abomasum. Can it be that they, the residents of Eretz Yisrael, eat it, considering it permitted for consumption,