Chullin 22bחולין כ״ב ב
The William Davidson Talmudתלמוד מהדורת ויליאם דוידסון
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22bכ״ב ב

ומה בני יונה שלא הוכשרו בגדולים הוכשרו בקטנים תורים שהוכשרו בגדולים אינו דין שהוכשרו בקטנים ת"ל (ויקרא א, יד) תורים גדולים ולא קטנים

If pigeons, which were not deemed fit when older, were deemed fit when younger, as the term “young pigeons” indicates that they are young, then with regard to doves, which were deemed fit when older, isn’t it logical that they were deemed fit when younger? Therefore, the verse states: “Doves,” meaning older and not younger.

בני יונה קטנים ולא גדולים שיכול והלא דין הוא ומה תורים שלא הוכשרו בקטנים הוכשרו בגדולים בני יונה שהוכשרו בקטנים אינו דין שהוכשרו בגדולים תלמוד לומר בני יונה קטנים ולא גדולים

The baraita continues: Young pigeons must be younger and not older, as one might have thought: And couldn’t this be derived through an a fortiori inference: If doves, which were not deemed fit when younger, were deemed fit when older, then with regard to pigeons, which were deemed fit when younger, isn’t it logical that they were deemed fit when older? Therefore, the verse states: “Young pigeons,” meaning younger and not older.

מאי תלמודא אמר רבא לא לישתמיט קרא ולכתוב מן בני התורים או מן היונה

The Gemara asks: What is the biblical derivation of these matters? Rava said: It is derived from the fact that it is not found that the verse would deviate from the norm and write: Of young doves, or of pigeons; rather, the wording in the Torah is always “of doves” or “of young pigeons.” Evidently, doves must be older and pigeons must be younger.

אימא בני יונה דכתב בהו רחמנא בני קטנים אין גדולים לא תורים אי בעי גדולים לייתי אי בעי קטנים לייתי דומיא דבני יונה מה בני יונה קטנים אין גדולים לא אף תורים גדולים אין קטנים לא

The Gemara objects: Say instead that with regard to pigeons, since the Merciful One writes: “Young,” this means younger birds, yes, older birds, no; but with regard to doves, if one wishes, let him bring older birds, and if he wishes, let him bring younger birds. The Gemara responds: Since doves and pigeons are always juxtaposed to one another in the Torah, it is derived that the halakha of doves is similar to the halakha of pigeons: Just as with regard to pigeons the halakha is younger birds, yes, older birds, no, so too with regard to doves, the halakha is older birds, yes, younger birds, no.

ת"ר יכול יהו כל התורים וכל בני היונה כשרים תלמוד לומר מן התורים ולא כל התורים מן בני היונה ולא כל בני יונה פרט לתחילת הציהוב שבזה ושבזה שפסול מאימתי התורים כשרים משיזהיבו מאימתי בני יונה פסולין משיצהיבו

The Sages taught in a baraita: One might have thought that all the older doves or all the younger pigeons would be fit for sacrifice; therefore, the verse states: “Of doves,” and not all doves; “of young pigeons,” and not all young pigeons. This serves to exclude birds at the beginning of the yellowing of their neck plumage, which are unfit as this, doves, and as that, pigeons. They are unfit as doves because they are not sufficiently old and as pigeons because they are no longer young. The tanna elaborates: From when are the doves fit? It is from when the color of their feathers turns a glistening gold. From when are the pigeons unfit? It is from when their feathers turn yellow.

תני יעקב קרחה מאימתי בני יונה כשרים משיעלעו הוא תני לה והוא אמר לה (איוב לט, ל) אפרוחיו יעלעו דם אימת אמר אביי מכי שמיט גדפא מיניה ואתי דמא

Ya’akov Korḥa taught a baraita: From when are pigeons fit? It is from when ye’alu. He teaches the baraita and he states its explanation: The reference is to that which is stated: “Its fledglings will suck up [ye’alu] blood” (Job 39:30). When is that? Abaye said: It is from the stage when one plucks a feather from it and blood emerges.

בעי רבי זירא האומר הרי עלי עולה מן התורים או מן בני היונה והביא תחלת הציהוב שבזה ושבזה מהו ספיקא הוי ונפיק או דילמא בריה הוי ולא נפיק

§ Rabbi Zeira raises a dilemma: With regard to one who says: It is incumbent upon me to bring a burnt offering of doves or of pigeons, and he brought birds at the beginning of the yellowing of their neck plumage of this, doves, and of that, pigeons, what is the halakha? Is it a case of uncertainty whether it is considered older or younger, and therefore when he brings both he fulfills his obligation, as one of the birds was fit for sacrifice; or perhaps a bird at the beginning of the yellowing is an entity in and of itself and is neither older nor younger, and he does not fulfill his obligation?

אמר רבא תא שמע פרט לתחילת הציהוב שבזה ושבזה שפסול אי אמרת בשלמא בריה הוי שפיר אלא אי אמרת ספיקא הוי איצטריך קרא למעוטי ספיקא

Rava said: Come and hear proof from the baraita where it is taught that the verse: “Of doves or of young pigeons,” serves to exclude birds at the beginning of the yellowing of their neck plumage that are unfit as this, doves, and as that, pigeons. Granted, if you say that a bird at that stage is an entity in and of itself, that works out well, as the verse serves to ensure that a bird at that stage of development will never be sacrificed. But if you say that it is a case of uncertainty, was it necessary for the verse to exclude a case of uncertainty?