Chullin 12bחולין י״ב ב
The William Davidson Talmudתלמוד מהדורת ויליאם דוידסון
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12bי״ב ב

הכי קאמר נראין דברי רבי יהודה לרבי חנינא בנו של רבי יוסי הגלילי באשפה שבשוק שאף רבי חנינא בנו של רבי יוסי הגלילי לא נחלק עליו אלא באשפה שבבית אבל באשפה שבשוק מודי ליה ונראין כו':

The Gemara explains: This is what Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi is saying: The statement of Rabbi Yehuda appears correct to Rabbi Ḥanina, son of Rabbi Yosei HaGelili, in a case where one found them in a scrap heap that is in a marketplace, as Rabbi Ḥanina, son of Rabbi Yosei HaGelili, disagrees with Rabbi Yehuda only in a case where one found them in a scrap heap that is in the house. But in a case where he found them in a scrap heap that is in a marketplace he concedes to Rabbi Yehuda. And the statement of Rabbi Ḥanina, son of Rabbi Yosei HaGelili, appears correct to Rabbi Yehuda in a case where he found them in the house, as he concedes to Rabbi Ḥanina in that case.

חוץ מחרש שוטה וקטן שמא יקלקלו את שחיטתן: שמא קלקלו לא קתני אלא שמא יקלקלו אמר רבא זאת אומרת אין מוסרין להן חולין לכתחלה:

§ The mishna stated: Everyone slaughters an animal, i.e., can perform halakhically valid slaughter, and their slaughter is valid, except for a deaf-mute, an imbecile, and a minor, lest they ruin their slaughter. The Gemara infers: The tanna does not teach: Due to the concern that they ruined their slaughter, in the past tense; rather, he teaches: Lest they ruin their slaughter, in the future. Rava says: That is to say that one does not give them non-sacred animals for slaughter ab initio, even with the supervision of others.

וכולן ששחטו ואחרים רואים אותם שחיטתן כשרה: מאן תנא דלא בעינן כוונה לשחיטה

The mishna continues: And for all of them, when they slaughtered an animal and others see and supervise them, their slaughter is valid, including even a deaf-mute, an imbecile, and a minor, who lack competence and whose intent is not halakhically effective. The Gemara asks: Who is the tanna who taught that we do not require intent for slaughter?

אמר רבא רבי נתן היא דתני אושעיא זעירא דמן חבריא זרק סכין לנועצה בכותל והלכה ושחטה כדרכה רבי נתן מכשיר וחכמים פוסלין הוא תני לה והוא אמר לה הלכה כרבי נתן

Rava said: It is Rabbi Natan, as Oshaya, the youngest of the company of Sages, taught a baraita, stating: If one threw a knife to embed it in the wall, and in the course of its flight the knife went and slaughtered an animal in its proper manner, Rabbi Natan deems the slaughter valid, and the Rabbis deem the slaughter not valid. Oshaya teaches the baraita and he states about it: The halakha is in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Natan that there is no need for intent to perform a valid act of slaughter.

והא בעינן מוליך ומביא שהלכה ובאה כדרכה:

The Gemara asks: How could the slaughter in the baraita be valid? But don’t we require that the slaughterer move the knife back and forth on the throat of the animal? When one throws a knife, it goes in one direction and does not return. The Gemara answers: The case in the baraita is one where the knife went and cut the animal’s throat, caromed off the wall and came back to cut the throat again in its proper manner.

א"ר חייא בר אבא בעי רבי יוחנן קטן יש לו מחשבה או אין לו מחשבה

§ Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Abba says that Rabbi Yoḥanan raises a dilemma: In matters that require thought and intent, does a minor have halakhically effective thought, or does he not have halakhically effective thought?

א"ל רבי אמי ותיבעי ליה מעשה מ"ש מעשה דלא קא מבעיא ליה דתנן יש להן מעשה מחשבה נמי לא תיבעי ליה דתנן אין להן מחשבה

Rabbi Ami said to Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Abba: And let Rabbi Yoḥanan raise this dilemma with regard to the action of a minor, whether the action of a minor that indicates intent is effective. What is different about the action of a minor that Rabbi Yoḥanan does not raise a dilemma? Is it due to the fact that we learned in a mishna (Kelim 17:15): A deaf-mute, an imbecile, and a minor have the capacity to perform an action that is halakhically effective? With regard to thought as well let him not raise this dilemma, as we learned in the same mishna: They do not have the capacity for halakhically effective thought.

דתנן האלון והרמון והאגוז שחקקום תינוקות למוד בהן עפר או שהתקינום לכף מאזנים טמאין מפני שיש להן מעשה

As we learned in that mishna: With regard to an acorn, a pomegranate, or a nut, which minors hollowed in order to measure dirt with them or that they affixed to a scale, the halakhic status of those shells is that of vessels, and they are susceptible to ritual impurity. By contrast, if the minors merely thought to use the shells for measuring or weighing, unlike adults, they do not thereby render those shells into vessels. The reason for this distinction is due to the fact that they have the capacity to perform an action,