Bava Metzia 45bבבא מציעא מ״ה ב
The William Davidson Talmudתלמוד מהדורת ויליאם דוידסון
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45bמ״ה ב

שמא ישהה עליותיו דזימנין דלא מלו זוזי בדינרא ולא מסיק ובית הלל סברי לא גזרינן שמא ישהה עליותיו דכי לא מלו נמי בדינרא אסוקי מסיק להו אבל בפירות על דינרין דברי הכל מחללינן דכיון דמרקבי לא משהי להו

lest one delay his ascension to Jerusalem due to this exchange, as sometimes the silver coins do not amount to the entire gold dinar, and he will not ascend to Jerusalem until he has collected enough silver dinars to exchange for a gold dinar. And Beit Hillel hold: We do not issue a decree lest he delay his ascension, as even if the silver coins do not amount to the entire gold dinar he will ascend with the silver coins. But with regard to desacralizing produce with dinars, everyone agrees that we desacralize produce in this manner, due to the fact that since the produce rots, he certainly does not delay taking the produce to Jerusalem until they equal an entire gold dinar.

וחד אמר אפילו בפירות על דינרין נמי מחלוקת

And one said: Even with regard to the exchange of produce for dinars there is a dispute, due to the concern that one will delay bringing his produce to Jerusalem until the value of his second-tithe produce is equal to a gold coin.

בשלמא להך לישנא דאמרת דמדאורייתא משרא שרי ורבנן הוא דגזרו ביה היינו דקתני יעשה ולא יעשה אלא להך לישנא דאמרת דמדאורייתא פליגי מחללינן ולא מחללינן מבעי ליה קשיא

The Gemara asks: Granted, according to that version of the dispute in which you said that everyone agrees the exchange of silver sela coins for gold dinars is permitted by Torah law and it is the Sages who issued a decree forbidding it, this is the reason that the dispute between Beit Hillel and Beit Shammai is taught in terms of the formulation: One may do, and: One may not do, as this is the language of a prohibition ab initio. But according to that version of the dispute in which you said that it is with regard to the halakha by Torah law that they disagree, it should have been phrased in terms of the formulation: We desacralize, and: We do not desacralize, since if the practice is forbidden by Torah law, the exchange of silver sela coins for gold dinars is ineffective even after the fact. The Gemara concludes: Indeed, according to the latter version, it is difficult.

איתמר רב ולוי חד אמר מטבע נעשה חליפין וחד אמר אין מטבע נעשה חליפין אמר רב פפא מ"ט דמ"ד אין מטבע נעשה חליפין משום דדעתיה אצורתא וצורתא עבידא דבטלא

§ It was stated that there is a dispute between Rav and Levi. One said: Money can be an item used to effect exchange. And one said: Money cannot be the item used to effect a transaction by means of exchange, as that form of transaction is effective only with regard to items such as produce and vessels. Rav Pappa said: What is the reason for the opinion of the one who says that money cannot be the item used to effect a transaction by means of exchange? It is because the mind of the one acquiring the coin is on the form minted on the coin, not the value of the metal, and the value due to the form is apt to be canceled by the authorities. Therefore, in the eyes of the party acquiring it, the coin itself has no real value and therefore cannot be an item used to effect exchange.

תנן הזהב קונה את הכסף מאי לאו בחליפין וש"מ מטבע נעשה חליפין לא בדמים אי הכי הזהב קונה [את] הכסף מחייב מבעי ליה תני הזהב מחייב

We learned in the mishna: When one party takes possession of the gold coins the other party acquires the silver coins. What, is the reference not to a case where the gold coins were given in order to acquire the silver coins by means of exchange, and therefore one can learn from it that a coin can be an item used to effect exchange? The Gemara rejects this proof: No, it is referring to a standard purchase effected by means of giving money. The Gemara raises a difficulty: If so, the language of the mishna is imprecise, as what is the meaning of: When one party takes possession of the gold coins, the other party acquires the silver coins? It should have stated: When one party takes possession of the gold coins, it obligates him to give the silver coins. The Gemara answers: Emend the text and teach: When one party takes possession of the gold coins, it obligates him to give the silver coins.

הכי נמי מסתברא מדקתני סיפא הכסף אינו קונה את הזהב אי אמרת בשלמא בדמים היינו דאמרינן דהבא פירא וכספא טבעא וטבעא פירא לא קני אלא אי אמרת בחליפין תרוייהו לקנו אהדדי

The Gemara comments: So too, it is reasonable to interpret the mishna in that manner, from the fact that it teaches in the latter clause of the mishna: When one party takes possession of the silver coins, the other party does not acquire the gold coins. Granted, if you say that this is a purchase effected by means of giving money, this is the meaning of that which we said: Gold is a commodity, and silver is currency, and currency does not effect acquisition of a commodity. But if you say that the mishna is referring to an acquisition effected by means of exchange, let both acquire the coins simultaneously from each other.

ועוד תניא הכסף אינו קונה את הזהב כיצד מכר לו עשרים וחמשה דינר של כסף בדינר של זהב אע"פ שמשך את הכסף לא קנה עד שימשוך את הזהב אי אמרת בשלמא בדמים משום הכי לא קני אלא אי אמרת בחליפין נקני

And furthermore, it is taught in a baraita: When one party takes possession of the silver coins, the other party does not acquire the gold coins. How so? If one sold twenty-five silver dinars to another for a gold dinar, even though he pulled the silver into his possession, he does not acquire it until the other person pulls the gold into his possession. Granted, if you say that this is a purchase effected by means of giving money, it is due to that reason that he does not acquire the gold coins; the transaction is effected only by taking possession of the purchase item. But if you say that this is an acquisition effected by means of exchange, let him acquire the gold by pulling the silver; in a transaction of exchange the two parties acquire the two items simultaneously.

אלא מאי בדמים אי הכי אימא רישא הזהב קונה את הכסף כיצד מכר לו דינר של זהב בעשרים וחמשה דינר של כסף כיון שמשך את הזהב נקנה כסף בכל מקום שהוא

The Gemara continues: Rather, what then is the nature of the transaction? Is it a purchase effected by means of giving money? If so, then say the first clause of the baraita: When one party takes possession of the gold coins the other party acquires the silver coins. How so? If one sold a gold dinar to another for twenty-five silver dinars, once he pulled the gold coin into his possession the silver coins are acquired wherever they are.

אי אמרת בשלמא בחליפין היינו דקתני נקנה כסף בכל מקום שהוא אלא אי אמרת בדמים האי נקנה כסף בכל מקום שהוא נתחייב גברא מיבעי ליה

The Gemara challenges: Granted, if you say that this is an acquisition effected by means of exchange, this is the meaning of that which is taught: The silver coins are acquired wherever they are, as that is the nature of the transaction of exchange. But if you say that this is a purchase effected by means of giving money, this phrase: The silver coins are acquired wherever they are, is incorrect, as the tanna should have stated: Once he pulled the gold coin into his possession the man is obligated to pay for his acquisition, as he is not required to pay with those particular silver coins.

אמר רב אשי לעולם בדמים ומאי בכל מקום שהוא כמות שהוא כדאמר ליה אי אמר ליה מארנקי חדשה יהבינא לך לא מצי יהיב ליה מארנקי ישנה אע"ג דעדיפי מינייהו מ"ט דאמר ליה לישנן קא בעינא להו

Rav Ashi said: Actually, the reference is to a purchase effected by means of giving money. And what is the meaning of: Wherever they are? It means, as they are, i.e., exactly as the owner of the silver said to him, and he cannot replace them with a different classification of coins. How so? If the owner of the silver coins said to the owner of the gold coin: I will give you payment from a purse in which there are new coins, he cannot give him payment from a purse in which there are old coins, even though old coins are preferable relative to new coins because people trust that used coins are authentic. What is the reason that the owner of the gold would prefer new silver coins? It is that he says to the owner of the silver: I need them in order to age them; i.e., these coins will remain in my possession for a long time, and old coins will blacken in these circumstances.

אמר רב פפא אפילו למ"ד אין מטבע נעשה חליפין מיעבד הוא דלא עביד חליפין אקנויי מיקנו בחליפין מידי דהוה אפירא לרב נחמן פירא לרב נחמן לאו אע"ג דאינהו לא עבדי חליפין אקנויי מקנו בחליפין טבעא נמי לא שנא

Rav Pappa says: Even according to the one who says: Money cannot be the item used to effect a transaction by means of exchange, this means only that money does not effect a transaction of exchange; but he concedes that money is acquired by means of a transaction of exchange. If one party pulls a vessel into his possession, the other party acquires silver coins in exchange, just as it is with regard to produce, according to the opinion of Rav Naḥman. Is it not the case that even though according to the opinion of Rav Naḥman produce itself does not effect a transaction of exchange, nevertheless produce is acquired by means of a transaction of exchange? Currency, too, is no different.

מיתיבי היה עומד בגורן ואין בידו מעות אומר לחבירו הרי פירות הללו נתונים לך במתנה

The Gemara raises an objection to the opinion of Rav Pappa from a baraita: One was standing on the threshing floor and had no money in his hand, and wanted to desacralize his second-tithe produce without paying an additional one-fifth. The halakha is that one who desacralizes his own produce must add one-fifth to its value. This man wants to engage in artifice as if he sold the produce to another, thereby enabling him to desacralize it without adding one-fifth. To that end, he says to another: This produce is hereby given to you as a gift,