003 HaMafkid - Hareni Meshalem 34a

שילם ולא רצה לישבע [וכו']:

א"ר חייא בר אבא א"ר יוחנן-

לא "שילם" שילם ממש, אלא כיון שאמר "הריני משלם" אע"פ שלא שילם.

§ The mishna teaches that if the guardian paid the owner and did not wish to take an oath, the thief pays the double payment to the guardian.

Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Abba says that Rabbi Yoḥanan says: When the mishna says: If the guardian paid, it does not mean that he actually paid. Rather, once the guardian said: I hereby choose to pay, even if he did not yet actually pay, he acquired the double payment and all other profits.

תנן: "שילם ולא רצה לישבע". שילם אין לא שילם לא.

אימא סיפא: "נשבע ולא רצה לשלם" טעמא דלא רצה. הא רצה, אע"פ שלא שילם.

אלא מהא ליכא למשמע מינה.

The Gemara raises an objection from that which we learned in the mishna: If the guardian paid the owner and did not wish to take an oath, the thief pays the double payment to the guardian. The Gemara infers: If the guardian paid, yes, he acquires these rights; if the guardian did not pay, he does not.

The Gemara answers: Say the latter clause of the mishna: In the case of a guardian who took an oath and did not wish to pay, the thief pays the double payment to the owner. The Gemara infers: The reason that the thief pays the owner is that the guardian did not wish to pay. But if the guardian wished to pay, although he did not actually pay, he acquires the rights to the double payment. Rather, because the inference from the first clause and the inference from the latter clause are contradictory, no inference is to be learned from this mishna.

The beginning of the Mishna (רישא) implies that the owner can convey the penalty payment to the guardian ONLY if he pays.

The end of the Mishna (סיפא) implies that the owner can convey the penalty payment to the guardian even if he just says "I WILL PAY"

The Gemara concludes that we can't come to a decision based on the words of our Mishna alone.

תניא כותיה דר' יוחנן:

השוכר פרה מחבירו ונגנבה ואמר הלה הריני משלם ואיני נשבע ואח"כ נמצא הגנב, משלם תשלומי כפל לשוכר.

The Gemara notes: It is taught in a baraita in accordance with the opinion of Rabbi Yoḥanan:

In the case of one who rents a cow from another, and it was stolen, and the other party, the renter, said: I hereby choose to pay and I will not take an oath, and the thief was located thereafter, the thief pays the double payment to the renter. Apparently, once the renter chooses to pay, he acquires the rights to the double payment.

The above Beraita clearly supports Rabbi Yochanan that it's enough to just say "I WILL PAY" in order to receive the penalty payments.

אמר רב פפא: שומר חנם כיון שאמר "פשעתי" מקנה ליה כפילא. דאי בעי, פטר נפשיה בגניבה.

שומר שכר כיון שאמר "נגנבה" מקנה ליה כפילא. דאי בעי, פטר נפשיה בשבורה ומתה.

Rav Pappa says: In the case of an unpaid guardian, once he stated: I was negligent, thereby rendering himself liable to compensate the owner, the owner transfers rights to the double payment to him, as, if the unpaid guardian wishes, he can exempt himself from that liability with the claim of theft. Admitting negligence is tantamount to agreeing to pay rather than taking an oath.

Likewise, in the case of a paid guardian, once he stated: It was stolen, the owner transfers rights to the double payment to him, as, if the paid guardian wishes, he can exempt himself from that liability with the claim that the animal was maimed or died due to circumstances beyond his control.

שואל שאומר "הריני משלם" לא מקני ליה כפילא. במאי הוה ליה למפטר נפשיה? במתה מחמת מלאכה.

מתה מחמת מלאכה לא שכיח.

By contrast, in the case of a borrower who says: I hereby choose to pay, the owner does not transfer the rights to the double payment to him. The borrower’s statement that he chooses to pay is ineffectual, as he is liable to pay even without it. Because the statement is ineffectual, it does not confer any rights. With what claim would a borrower be able to exempt himself from payment? It is only with the claim that the animal died due to ordinary labor.

A case of an animal that died due to ordinary labor is uncommon, and this claim is therefore accepted only with corroborating proof.

According to this (1st) version of Rav Pappa, a borrower that says "I WILL PAY" DOES NOT receive the penalty payments.

איכא דאמרי:

אמר רב פפא שואל נמי כיון שאמר "הריני משלם" מקני ליה כפילא. דאי בעי, פטר נפשיה במתה מחמת מלאכה.

אמר ליה רב זביד הכי אמר אביי:

שואל עד שישלם.

מאי טעמא?

הואיל וכל הנאה שלו, בדיבורא לא מקני ליה כפילא.

Some say that Rav Pappa said: In the case of a borrower, once he stated: I hereby choose to pay, the owner transfers rights to the double payment to him, as, if a borrower wishes, he can exempt himself from that liability with the claim that the animal died due to ordinary labor.

Rav Zevid said to him that this is what Abaye said: A borrower acquires the rights to the double payment only when he actually pays for the item.

What is the reason for this?

Since all of the benefit accrues to the borrower, as he enjoys the use of the item without payment, the owner does not transfer the rights to the double payment to the borrower due to his statement that he chooses to pay.

According to this (2nd) version of Rav Pappa, a borrower who says "I WILL PAY," DOES receive the penalty payment.

Rav Zevid argues with this version of Rav Pappa and says a borrower who says "I WILL PAY" DOES NOT receive the penalty payment.

וכל הנאה שלו - שהיה עושה בה מלאכתו בלא שום שכר:

תניא כוותיה דרב זביד:

השואל פרה מחבירו ונגנבה וקידם השואל ושילם, ואח"כ נמצא הגנב, משלם תשלומי כפל לשואל.

The Gemara notes: It is taught in a baraita in accordance with the opinion of Rav Zevid:

In the case of one who borrows a cow from another, and it was stolen, and the borrower went ahead and paid, and the thief was located thereafter, the thief pays the double payment to the borrower. This indicates that the borrower receives the double payment only if he actually paid the owner for the item.

The above Beraita supports RAV ZEVID because it states that that the borrower receives the penalty payment only if he "went ahead and paid."

ללישנא קמא דרב פפא ודאי לא הויא תיובתא.

ללישנא בתרא לימא תיהוי תיובתיה?

The Gemara comments: According to the first version of the statement of Rav Pappa, that the owner transfers rights to the double payment to the borrower only if he actually pays the owner, this baraita certainly is not a conclusive refutation [teyuvta] of the opinion of Rav Pappa, as the baraita corresponds to his opinion. According to the latter version of Rav Pappa’s statement, that the owner transfers rights to the double payment to the borrower even if the borrower merely says that he chooses to pay, shall we say that this baraita would be a conclusive refutation of the opinion of Rav Pappa?

The Beraita in #8, which states that the borrower must pay in order to receive the penalty payment is not a refutation to the first version of Rav Pappa.(#5).

The Beraita in #8 is a refutation to the second version of Rav Pappa.(#6)

אמר לך רב פפא מי אלימא ממתניתין דקתני שילם ואוקימנא באמר. הכא נמי באמר.

The Gemara answers: Rav Pappa could have said to you: Is the baraita stronger than the mishna, which teaches that the guardian receives the double payment if he already paid the owner, and nevertheless, we established that the mishna is referring to one who states his intent to pay but has not yet paid? Here, too, establish the baraita as referring to one who states his intent to pay but has not yet paid.

Rav Pappa says that just like the Mishna really means he only intends to pay, so too the Beraita also means he only intends to pay and that he would receive the penalty payment even if he says "I WILL PAY."

מי דמי?

התם לא קתני קידם.

הכא קתני "קידם"!

מאי "קידם"? קידם ואמר.

The Gemara questions this: Are these cases comparable? There, in the mishna, it is not taught that he went ahead and paid. Here, in the baraita, it is taught that he went ahead and paid, which indicates that he actually paid and not merely that he agreed to pay. The Gemara responds: What is the meaning of went ahead? It means that he went ahead and stated his intent to pay, although he did not yet actually pay.

הא מדקתני גבי שוכר "ואמר" וגבי שואל "קידם" ש"מ דוקא קתני!

מידי גבי הדדי תניא?!

The Gemara asks: But from the fact that the tanna teaches the halakha in the baraita cited earlier with regard to a renter with the formulation: And he said that he would pay, and in the baraita with regard to a borrower the tanna uses the formulation: Went ahead, conclude from it that the baraita concerning a borrower is teaching specifically that he actually paid.

The Gemara rejects this proof: Are these two baraitot taught together so that one can draw a conclusion based on a discrepancy in their formulation? Perhaps the baraitot are unrelated and are simply formulated in different styles.

שיילינהו לתנאי דבי רבי חייא ודבי ר' אושעיא ואמרי גבי הדדי תניין.

The Gemara comments: The Sages asked the tanna’im of the school of Rabbi Ḥiyya and Rabbi Oshaya, experts in mishnayot and baraitot, if these baraitot were formulated together. And they said that the baraitot were taught together as one long baraita, and therefore one can draw a conclusion based on a discrepancy in their formulation.

The Gemara concludes that the two Beraitot were taught together as one and therefore, because of the different expression, the borrower DOES NOT acquire the penalty payment unless he actually paid.

Therefore the second version of Rav Pappa is refuted.