Shabbat 155bשבת קנ״ה ב
The William Davidson Talmudתלמוד מהדורת ויליאם דוידסון
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155bקנ״ה ב

את הדלועין לפני הבהמה ואת הנבלה לפני הכלבים מאי לאו דלועין דומיא דנבלה מה נבלה דרכיכא אף דלועין דרכיכי אלמא טרחינן באוכלא ותיובתא דרב יהודה אמר לך רב יהודה לא נבלה דומיא דדלועין מה דלועין דאשוני אף נבלה דאשונא והיכי משכחת לה בבשר פילי אי נמי בגורייאתא זוטרי

pumpkins before an animal and an animal carcass before dogs. Is this not referring to pumpkins that are similar to an animal carcass? Just as an animal carcass is soft, so too, the pumpkins referred to here are soft. Apparently, one may exert himself with food, and this is a conclusive refutation of the opinion of Rav Yehuda. The Gemara answers that Rav Yehuda could have said to you: No, the mishna is referring to an animal carcass that is similar to pumpkins. Just as the reference is to pumpkins that are hard, so too, the reference is to an animal carcass that is hard, and chopping it renders it edible. The Gemara asks: And how is it possible to find an animal carcass that is so hard that another animal cannot eat it? The Gemara answers: The mishna is referring to elephant flesh. Alternatively, it can be explained that the mishna is referring to more common animal meat placed before puppies that can eat only chopped meat.

תא שמע דתני רב חנן מנהרדעא מפרכינן תבן ואספסתא ומערבין אלמא טרחינן באוכלא תבן בתיבנא סריא אספסתא בעילי זוטרי:

Come and hear a proof from that which Rav Ḥanan of Neharde’a taught: One may crumble straw and alfalfa on Shabbat and mix the two together, and the animal then eats the straw because it is mixed with the alfalfa. Apparently, one may exert himself with food on Shabbat. The Gemara rejects this proof: No, the straw mentioned here is rotten straw that requires special preparation to render it suitable for animal consumption, and alfalfa is taught with regard to young donkeys who can only eat it in small pieces.

מתני׳ אין אובסין את הגמל ולא דורסין אבל מלעיטין ואין מאמירין את העגלים אבל מלעיטין ומהלקטין לתרנגולין ונותנין מים למורסן אבל לא גובלין ואין נותנין מים לפני דבורים ולפני יונים שבשובך אבל נותנין לפני אווזין ותרנגולין ולפני יוני הרדיסיות:

MISHNA: One may not forcibly overfeed a camel on Shabbat and one may not force-feed it, even if in doing so he does not overfeed the camel. However, one may place food into its mouth. And the mishna makes a distinction, which will be explained in the Gemara, between two manners of placing food in the mouths of cattle. One may not place food in the mouths of calves on Shabbat in the manner of hamra’a, but one may do so in the manner of halata. And one may force-feed chickens. And one may add water to bran used as animal feed, but one may not knead the mixture. And one may not place water before bees or before doves in a dove-cote, because they are capable of finding their own food; however, one may place water before geese and chickens and before hardisian [hardeisiyyot] doves.

גמ׳ מאי אין אובסין אמר רב יהודה אין עושין לה אבוס בתוך מעיה מי איכא כי האי גוונא אין וכדאמר רב ירמיה מדיפתי לדידי חזי לי ההוא טייעא דאכלא כורא ואטעינא כורא:

GEMARA: We learned in the mishna that one may not forcibly overfeed a camel on Shabbat. The Gemara asks: What is meaning of: One may not forcibly overfeed? Rav Yehuda said: One may not feed a camel to the point that it creates a trough inside of its stomach. The Gemara asks: Is there the possibility of feeding a camel in that manner? The Gemara answers: Yes; and as Rav Yirmeya of Difti said: I saw an Arab who fed his camel a kor of food and loaded it with another kor on its back.

אין מאמירין: איזו היא המראה ואיזו היא הלעטה אמר רב יהודה המראה למקום שאינה יכולה להחזיר הלעטה למקום שיכולה להחזיר רב חסדא אמר אידי ואידי למקום שאינה יכולה להחזיר והמראה בכלי הלעטה ביד

We learned in the mishna: One may not place food in the mouths of calves on Shabbat in the manner of hamra’a, but one may do so in the manner of halata. The Gemara asks: Which is hamra’a and which is halata? Rav Yehuda said: Hamra’a is positioning food into a place in the animal’s throat from which it cannot return and expel the food. Halata is positioning food into a place in the animal’s mouth from which it can return and expel the food. Rav Ḥisda said: Both this and that refer to positioning food into a place from which the animal cannot return and expel the food; however, the difference between them is that in hamra’a the food is placed with a vessel, whereas in halata the food is placed by hand.

מתיב רב יוסף מהלקטין לתרנגולין ואין צריך לומר שמלקיטין ואין מלקיטין ליוני שובך וליוני עלייה ואין צריך לומר שאין מהלקטין מאי מהלקטין ומאי מלקיטין אילימא מהלקטין דספי ליה בידים מלקיטין דשדי ליה קמייהו מכלל דיוני שובך ויוני עלייה מישדא קמייהו נמי לא

Rav Yosef raised an objection from that which was taught in the Tosefta: One may force-feed [mehalketin] chickens, and needless to say, one may malkitin. And one may not malkitin doves in a dove-cote or doves in an attic, and needless to say, one may not force-feed. The Gemara asks: What is mehalketin and what is malkitin? If you say that mehalketin means that one feeds the bird by hand and malkitin means that one throws the food before them, by inference, throwing food before doves in a dove-cote or before doves in an attic is also not permitted. But why would that be prohibited?

אלא לאו מהלקטין למקום שאינה יכולה להחזיר מלקיטין למקום שיכולה להחזיר מכלל דהמראה בכלי ותיובתא דרב יהודה

Rather, is it not that mehalketin means positioning food into a place from which the bird cannot return and expel the food, and malkitin means positioning food into a place from which it can return and expel the food? Therefore, mehalketin in the case of birds is similar to halata into a camel’s mouth, which the mishna permitted. By inference, the hamra’a prohibited in the mishna is performed with a vessel, and this poses a conclusive refutation to the opinion of Rav Yehuda.

אמר לך רב יהודה לעולם מהלקטין דספי ליה בידים מלקיטין דשדי ליה קמייהו ודקא קשיא לך יוני שובך ויוני עלייה למישדא קמייהו נמי לא הני מזונותן עליך והני אין מזונותן עליך כדתניא נותנין מזונות לפני כלב ואין נותנין מזונות לפני חזיר ומה הפרש בין זה לזה זה מזונותיו עליך וזה אין מזונותיו עליך

Rav Yehuda could have said to you: Actually, mehalketin means that one feeds the bird by hand, and malkitin mean that one throws the food before them. And that which was difficult for you: Is throwing food before doves in a dove-cote or doves in an attic also not permitted on Shabbat? This is not difficult because with regard to these chickens and geese that were mentioned, sole responsibility for their sustenance is incumbent upon you as they are incapable of providing for themselves. However, in the case of these doves, responsibility for their sustenance is not incumbent upon you, and therefore, it is prohibited to place food before them, as it was taught in a baraita: One may place sustenance before a dog on Shabbat, but one may not place sustenance before a pig. And what is the difference between this and that? In this case of the dog, responsibility for its sustenance is incumbent upon you, and in that case of the pig, responsibility for its sustenance is not incumbent upon you, as no Jew raises pigs.

אמר רב אשי מתניתין נמי דיקא אין נותנין מים לפני דבורים ולפני יונים שבשובך אבל נותנין לפני אווזין ולפני תרנגולין ולפני יוני הרדיסיות מאי טעמא לאו משום דהני מזונותן עליך והני אין מזונותן עליך

Rav Ashi said: The language of the mishna is also precise in support of this explanation, as we learn: And one may not place water before bees or before doves in a dove-cote because they are capable of finding their own food; however, one may place water before geese and chickens and before hardisian doves. What is the reason for this distinction? Is it not because for these, geese and chickens, responsibility for their sustenance is incumbent upon you, and for those, bees and doves, responsibility for their sustenance is not incumbent upon you?

וליטעמיך מאי איריא מיא אפילו חיטי ושערי נמי לא אלא שאני מיא דשכיחי באגמא

The Gemara rejects this proof: And according to your reasoning, why did the mishna cite a case specifically involving water? Even wheat and barley should also not be permitted. Rather, the reason for the distinction between the halakhot is that water is different because it is found in a lake or in other reservoirs, and therefore one need not exert himself to provide water for bees and doves. That is not the case with the rest of their food.

דרש רבי יונה אפיתחא דבי נשיאה מאי דכתיב (יודע) צדיק דין דלים יודע הקדוש ברוך הוא בכלב שמזונותיו מועטין לפיכך שוהה אכילתו במעיו שלשה ימים כדתנן כמה תשהה אכילתו במעיו ויהא טמא בכלב שלשה ימים מעת לעת ובעופות ובדגים כדי שתפול לאור ותשרף

Returning to the discussion of feeding dogs, the Gemara cites additional statements on the topic. Rabbi Yona taught at the entrance to the house of the Nasi: What is the meaning of that which is written: “The righteous man takes knowledge of the cause of the poor” (Proverbs 29:7)? The Holy One, Blessed be He, knows that for a dog, its sustenance is scarce and they are not fed sufficiently. Therefore, its food remains in its intestines for three days so that the dog will be sustained by that food, as we learned in a mishna dealing with the halakhot of ritual impurity: After an animal eats flesh from a corpse, how long does its food remain in its intestines undigested and therefore ritually impure? In the case of a dog it is for three twenty-four hour periods, and for fowl and fish, who digest their food quickly, it is the equivalent of the time it takes for the flesh to fall into the fire and be consumed by the fire.

אמר רב המנונא שמע מינה אורח ארעא למשדא אומצא לכלבא וכמה אמר רב מרי משח אודניה וחוטרא אבתריה הני מילי בדברא אבל במתא לא דאתא למסרך אמר רב פפא לית דעניא מכלבא ולית דעתיר מחזירא

Rav Hamnuna said: Learn from it: It is the way of the world, i.e., proper conduct, to throw a piece of meat before a dog, as even the Holy One, Blessed be He, concerns Himself with the dog’s sustenance. The Gemara asks: And how much food should one give to a dog? Rav Mari said: Give it the equivalent of the measure of its ear and strike it immediately thereafter with a staff so that the dog will not grow attached to the one who fed it. This applies specifically when one is in the field, but in the city, one should not give anything to a dog because the dog will be drawn to follow him and remain with him. Rav Pappa said: There is no creature poorer than a dog, and no creature richer than a pig, as pigs will eat anything, and people provide them with plentiful amounts of food.

תניא כוותיה דרב יהודה איזו היא המראה ואיזו היא הלעטה המראה מרביצה ופוקס את פיה ומאכילה כרשינין ומים בבת אחת הלעטה מאכילה מעומד ומשקה מעומד ונותנין כרשינין בפני עצמן ומים בפני עצמן:

With regard to the halakhic ruling, a baraita was taught in accordance with the opinion of Rav Yehuda: What is hamra’a and what is halata? Hamra’a is when a person forcibly lays the animal on the ground and forces its mouth open and feeds it vetch and water simultaneously so that the animal will be unable to expel it. Halata is when one feeds the animal while it is standing and gives it to drink while it is standing, i.e., gives it food and drink in the usual manner, and one gives it vetch separately and water separately, to augment what the animal eats on its own.

מהלקטין לתרנגולין כו׳: אמר אביי אמריתה קמיה דמר מתניתין מני ואמר לי רבי יוסי בר יהודה היא דתניא אחד נותן את הקמח ואחד נותן לתוכו מים האחרון חייב דברי רבי רבי יוסי בר יהודה אומר אינו חייב עד שיגבל

We learned in the mishna: And one may force-feed chickens, and one may add water to bran, but one may not knead the mixture. Abaye said: I said this before my Master, Rabba: Whose opinion is it in the mishna? And he said to me: It is the opinion of Rabbi Yosei bar Yehuda, as it was taught in a baraita: If one person places flour and another one places water into it, the latter is liable to bring a sin-offering for performing the prohibited labor of kneading. This is the statement of Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi. Rabbi Yosei bar Yehuda says: One is only liable when he actually kneads the flour and water together. He is not liable for merely adding water to the flour. This is similar to the ruling of the mishna that one may pour water into the bran but may not knead the mixture.

דילמא עד כאן לא קאמר רבי יוסי בר יהודה התם אלא קמח דבר גיבול הוא אבל מורסן דלאו בר גיבול הוא אפילו רבי יוסי בר יהודה מודה לא סלקא דעתך דתניא בהדיא אין נותנין מים למורסן דברי רבי רבי יוסי בר יהודה אומר נותנין מים למורסן

The Gemara rejects this: Perhaps Rabbi Yosei bar Yehuda only stated that actual kneading is required to be liable for performing the prohibited labor of kneading in the case of flour, which can be kneaded; however, in the case of bran, which cannot be kneaded into a dough, even Rabbi Yosei bar Yehuda would concede that it is prohibited, even if one does not actually knead the mixture. The Gemara rejects this statement: It should not enter your mind to explain it that way, as it was taught explicitly in a baraita: One may not place water into bran on Shabbat; this is the statement of Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi. Rabbi Yosei bar Yehuda says: One may place water into bran.

תנו רבנן אין גובלין את הקלי ויש אומרים גובלין מאן ויש אומרים אמר רב חסדא

The Sages taught: On Shabbat, one may not knead sweet flour made from unripe grain that was dried in an oven, and some say: One may knead it. The Gemara asks: Whose is the opinion introduced as: And some say? Rav Ḥisda said: