Shabbat 115bשבת קט״ו ב
The William Davidson Talmudתלמוד מהדורת ויליאם דוידסון
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115bקט״ו ב

אִילֵּימָא תַּנָּא קַמָּא דְּרַבִּי יוֹסֵי — וְדִילְמָא בְּהָא קָמִיפַּלְגִי, מָר סָבַר: נִיתְּנוּ לִקְרוֹת בָּהֶן, וּמָר סָבַר: לֹא נִיתְּנוּ לִקְרוֹת בָּהֶן. אֶלָּא רַבִּי יוֹסֵי וְתַנָּא דְּגִיפְטִית.

If we say it is the first tanna who disagrees with Rabbi Yosei, that is not necessarily so, and perhaps they are disagreeing about this: This Master, the first tanna, holds that books written in other languages may be read; and this Master, Rabbi Yosei, holds that they may not be read, and their dispute is unrelated to the dispute between Rav Huna and Rav Ḥisda. Rather, it is the dispute between Rabbi Yosei and the first tanna, who spoke about books written in Coptic. According to that tanna, even books that may not be read are rescued, whereas Rabbi Yosei holds that they are not rescued.

תָּנוּ רַבָּנַן: הַבְּרָכוֹת וְהַקְּמֵיעִין, אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁיֵּשׁ בָּהֶן אוֹתִיּוֹת שֶׁל שֵׁם וּמֵעִנְיָינוֹת הַרְבֵּה שֶׁבַּתּוֹרָה — אֵין מַצִּילִין אוֹתָן מִפְּנֵי הַדְּלֵיקָה, אֶלָּא נִשְׂרָפִים בִּמְקוֹמָן [הֵן וְאַזְכָּרוֹתֵיהֶן]. מִכָּאן אָמְרוּ: כּוֹתְבֵי בְרָכוֹת כְּשׂוֹרְפֵי תוֹרָה. מַעֲשֶׂה בְּאֶחָד שֶׁהָיָה כּוֹתֵב בְּצַיְדָּן, בָּאוּ וְהוֹדִיעוּ אֶת רַבִּי יִשְׁמָעֵאל, וְהָלַךְ רַבִּי יִשְׁמָעֵאל לְבוֹדְקוֹ. כְּשֶׁהָיָה עוֹלֶה בַּסּוּלָּם הִרְגִּישׁ בּוֹ, נָטַל טוֹמוֹס שֶׁל בְּרָכוֹת וְשִׁקְּעָן בְּסֵפֶל שֶׁל מַיִם. וּבַלָּשׁוֹן הַזֶּה אָמַר לוֹ רַבִּי יִשְׁמָעֵאל: גָּדוֹל עוֹנֶשׁ הָאַחֲרוֹן מִן הָרִאשׁוֹן.

The Sages taught in a baraita: The blessings that are written and the amulets, even though there are the letters of the Name of God in them and matters that appear in the Torah are mentioned in them, they are not rescued from the fire; rather, they burn in their place, they and the names of God contained therein. From here the Sages said: Writers of blessings are like burners of Torah scrolls, as it is prohibited to rescue these texts from the fire on Shabbat even though it is likely that they will be destroyed. There was an incident involving one who was writing pages with blessings in Sidon. They came and informed Rabbi Yishmael of his actions, and Rabbi Yishmael went to examine him to determine if the report was true. When Rabbi Yishmael was ascending the ladder to confront him, the scribe sensed his presence, took a bundle [tomos] of blessings, and submerged it in a basin of water to conceal it from Rabbi Yishmael. And in these words Rabbi Yishmael said to him: The punishment for the latter action is greater than the punishment for the former. Although it is prohibited to write blessings, destroying them is a greater violation.

בְּעָא מִינֵּיהּ רֵישׁ גָּלוּתָא מֵרַבָּה בַּר רַב הוּנָא: הָיוּ כְּתוּבִין בְּסַם וּבְסִיקְרָא בְּקוֹמוֹס וּבְקַנְקַנְתּוֹם, בִּלְשׁוֹן הַקֹּדֶשׁ, מַצִּילִין אוֹתָן מִפְּנֵי הַדְּלֵיקָה אוֹ אֵין מַצִּילִין? תִּיבְּעֵי לְמַאן דְּאָמַר מַצִּילִין, תִּיבְּעֵי לְמַאן דְּאָמַר אֵין מַצִּילִין. תִּיבְּעֵי לְמַאן דְּאָמַר אֵין מַצִּילִין — הָנֵי מִילֵּי הֵיכָא דִּכְתִיבִי תַּרְגּוּם וּבְכָל לָשׁוֹן, אֲבָל הָכָא דִּכְתִיבִי בִּלְשׁוֹן הַקֹּדֶשׁ — מַצִּילִין, אוֹ דִילְמָא אֲפִילּוּ לְמַאן דְּאָמַר מַצִּילִין — הָנֵי מִילֵּי הֵיכָא דִּכְתִיבִי בִּדְיוֹ דְּמִיקַּיַּים, אֲבָל הָכָא כֵּיוָן דְּלָא מִיקַּיַּים — לָא. אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אֵין מַצִּילִין. וְהָא רַב הַמְנוּנָא תָּנָא מַצִּילִין! אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אִי תַּנְיָא — תַּנְיָא. מַאי תַּנְיָא? אָמַר רַב אָשֵׁי, כִּדְתַנְיָא: אֵין בֵּין סְפָרִים לִמְגִילָּה אֶלָּא שֶׁהַסְּפָרִים נִכְתָּבִים בְּכׇל לָשׁוֹן, וּמְגִילָּה עַד שֶׁתְּהֵא כְּתוּבָה אַשּׁוּרִית, עַל הַסֵּפֶר, וּבִדְיוֹ.

The Exilarch raised a dilemma before Rabba bar Rav Huna: If the sacred scrolls were written in yellow-tinged arsenic, or red paint, in gum, or in iron sulfate, types of ink which may not be used to write Torah scrolls; however, the scrolls were written properly in the holy tongue, does one rescue them from the fire on Shabbat or does one not rescue them? The Gemara adds: This dilemma is raised according to the one who said that one rescues sacred writings written in other languages; and this dilemma is raised according to the one who said that one does not rescue them. The Gemara elaborates. This dilemma is raised according to the one who said that one does not rescue them: Perhaps that applies specifically in a case where they are written in Aramaic translation and in any foreign language; however, here, where they are written in the holy tongue, one rescues them. Or perhaps even according to the one who said that one rescues them, that applies specifically in a case where they are written in ink that endures; however, here, since the script does not endure, they are not rescued. Rabba bar Rav Huna said to him: One does not rescue them. The Exilarch said to him: Didn’t Rav Hamnuna teach in a baraita that one saves them. Rabba bar Rav Huna said to him: If it was taught in a baraita, it was taught, and I retract my statement. The Gemara asks: What is the baraita that was taught on this matter? Rav Ashi said, as it was taught in a baraita: The only difference between the books of the Bible and the Megilla of Esther is that the books are written in any language and are valid, and the Megilla is only valid if it is written in Assyrian script, the familiar square Hebrew script, on a parchment scroll, and in ink. Apparently, other sacred books need not be written in ink.

בְּעָא מִינֵּיהּ רַב הוּנָא בַּר חֲלוּב מֵרַב נַחְמָן: סֵפֶר תּוֹרָה שֶׁאֵין בּוֹ לְלַקֵּט שְׁמוֹנִים וְחָמֵשׁ אוֹתִיּוֹת, כְּגוֹן פָּרָשַׁת ״וַיְהִי בִּנְסוֹעַ הָאָרוֹן״, מַצִּילִין אוֹתָן מִפְּנֵי הַדְּלֵיקָה, אוֹ אֵין מַצִּילִין? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: וְתִיבְּעֵי לָךְ פָּרָשַׁת ״וַיְהִי בִּנְסוֹעַ הָאָרוֹן״ גּוּפַהּ? הֵיכָא דְּחָסַר פָּרָשַׁת ״וַיְהִי בִּנְסוֹעַ״ — לָא קָמִיבַּעְיָא לִי, דְּכֵיוָן דְּאִית בֵּיהּ הַזְכָּרוֹת, אַף עַל גַּב דְּלֵית בֵּיהּ שְׁמוֹנִים וְחָמֵשׁ אוֹתִיּוֹת — מַצִּילִין. כִּי קָא מִיבַּעְיָא לִי סֵפֶר תּוֹרָה שֶׁאֵין בּוֹ לְלַקֵּט, מַאי? אֲמַר לֵיהּ: אֵין מַצִּילִין.

Rav Huna bar Ḥaluv raised a dilemma before Rav Naḥman: With regard to a Torah scroll in which there is not enough to compile from it eighty-five complete letters written properly and in order, which is the minimum measure determined by the Sages for a Torah to maintain the sanctity of a Torah scroll, as in the portion of: “And when the Ark traveled” (Numbers 10:35–36), does one rescue it from the fire on Shabbat or does one not rescue it? Rav Naḥman said to him: And raise a dilemma with regard to the portion of: “And when the Ark traveled,” itself, i.e., does one rescue it on Shabbat if it is missing a single letter? Rav Huna bar Ḥaluv answered: In a case where the portion of: “And when the Ark traveled,” is incomplete, it is not a dilemma for me, as since it contains names of God, even though there are not eighty-five letters in it, it is rescued. However, the case where it is a dilemma for me is with regard to a Torah scroll in which there is not enough to compile from it eighty-five complete letters; what is the ruling? Is it rescued on Shabbat or not? Rav Naḥman said to him: It is not rescued.

אֵיתִיבֵיהּ: תַּרְגּוּם שֶׁכְּתָבוֹ מִקְרָא, וּמִקְרָא שֶׁכְּתָבוֹ תַּרְגּוּם, וּכְתָב עִבְרִית — מַצִּילִין מִפְּנֵי הַדְּלֵיקָה. וְאֵין צָרִיךְ לוֹמַר תַּרְגּוּם שֶׁבְּעֶזְרָא וְשֶׁבְּדָנִיאֵל וְשֶׁבַּתּוֹרָה. תַּרְגּוּם שֶׁבַּתּוֹרָה מַאי נִיהוּ? — ״יְגַר שָׂהֲדוּתָא״, וְאַף עַל גַּב דְּלֵית בַּהּ שְׁמוֹנִים וְחָמֵשׁ אוֹתִיּוֹת! כִּי תַּנְיָא הַהִיא — לְהַשְׁלִים.

Rav Huna bar Ḥaluv raised an objection to his opinion from that which we learned: A verse that is originally written in Aramaic translation that was written in the language of the Bible, and a verse that is originally written in the language of the Bible that was written in Aramaic translation, and a Torah that was written in ancient Hebrew script, one rescues them from the fire on Shabbat. And, needless to say, one saves the verses written in Aramaic translation that are in the book of Ezra, and that are in the book of Daniel, and that are in the Torah. What are the verses originally written in Aramaic translation in the Torah? It is the verse: “And Laban called it Yegar Sahaduta, and Jacob called it Gal Ed” (Genesis 31:47), and apparently, it is rescued, even though there are not eighty-five letters in it. Rav Naḥman answered him: That is no proof, as when that baraita was taught, it was in a case where the Aramaic verse is counted to complete the total of eighty-five letters, but it is not independently significant.

אִיבַּעְיָא לְהוּ: הָנֵי שְׁמוֹנִים וְחָמֵשׁ אוֹתִיּוֹת, מְכוּנָּסוֹת אוֹ מְפוּזָּרוֹת? רַב הוּנָא אָמַר: מְכוּנָּסוֹת. רַב חִסְדָּא אָמַר: אֲפִילּוּ מְפוּזָּרוֹת. מֵיתִיבִי: סֵפֶר תּוֹרָה שֶׁבָּלָה, אִם יֵשׁ בּוֹ לְלַקֵּט שְׁמוֹנִים וְחָמֵשׁ אוֹתִיּוֹת, כְּגוֹן פָּרָשַׁת ״וַיְהִי בִּנְסוֹעַ הָאָרוֹן״ — מַצִּילִין, וְאִם לָאו — אֵין מַצִּילִין. תְּיוּבְתָּא דְרַב הוּנָא! תַּרְגְּמַהּ רַב חִסְדָּא אַלִּיבָּא דְרַב הוּנָא בְּתֵיבוֹת.

A dilemma was raised before the Sages: With regard to these eighty-five letters that allow one to rescue a Torah scroll, is that specifically when they are juxtaposed, or even when they are scattered? Rav Huna said: Only when they are juxtaposed. Rav Ḥisda said: Even when they are scattered. The Gemara raises an objection from that which we learned: With regard to a Torah scroll that is worn, if there is enough to compile from it eighty-five complete letters as in the portion of: “And when the Ark traveled,” one rescues it from the fire, and if not one does not rescue it. The term: To compile, indicates that the letters are not juxtaposed, and this is a conclusive refutation of the opinion of Rav Huna. Rav Ḥisda interpreted it according to the opinion of Rav Huna: Indeed, the baraita is referring to a case where the letters are scattered, but they are juxtaposed in the form of words. In that case, even Rav Huna agrees that it is a sacred book. Rav Huna and Rav Ḥisda only disagree in a case where isolated letters are scattered.

תָּנוּ רַבָּנַן: ״וַיְהִי בִּנְסוֹעַ הָאָרוֹן וַיֹּאמֶר מֹשֶׁה״ — פָּרָשָׁה זוֹ עָשָׂה לָהּ הַקָּדוֹשׁ בָּרוּךְ הוּא סִימָנִיּוֹת מִלְּמַעְלָה וּלְמַטָּה, לוֹמַר

Apropos the portion: “And when the Ark traveled,” the Gemara cites that which the Sages taught in a baraita. It is stated: “And when the Ark traveled and Moses proclaimed: Rise up, God, and Your enemies will scatter and those who hate You will flee from before You.” And The Holy One, Blessed be He, made signs in the Torah for this portion, above and below, i.e., before and after it, in order to say