Chullin 3bחולין ג׳ ב
The William Davidson Talmudתלמוד מהדורת ויליאם דוידסון
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3bג׳ ב

בודק סכין ונותן לו ומותר לאכול משחיטתו אבל לא בדק ונתן לו לא ישחוט ואם שחט בודק סכינו אחריו נמצאת סכינו יפה מותר לאכול משחיטתו ואם לאו אסור לאכול משחיטתו

one examines a knife to ensure that it is perfectly smooth with no nicks and gives it to the transgressor, and it is permitted to eat from what he slaughtered. But if one did not examine the knife and give it to the transgressor, the transgressor may not slaughter an animal ab initio. And if the transgressor slaughtered an animal, one examines his knife after his slaughter. If his knife is found to be perfectly smooth, it is permitted to eat meat from what he slaughtered, and if not, it is prohibited to eat from what he slaughtered.

חוץ מחרש שוטה וקטן דאפילו דיעבד נמי לא שמא ישהו שמא ידרסו ושמא יחלידו וכולן ששחטו אהייא אילימא אחרש שוטה וקטן עלה קאי ואם שחטו מיבעי ליה

And it teaches: This is the halakha with regard to all people except for a deaf-mute, an imbecile, and a minor, whose slaughter is not valid even after the fact. The reason the Sages deemed such slaughter not valid is lest people in these categories interrupt the slaughter, lest they press the knife in the course of slaughter, and lest they conceal the knife beneath the windpipe or the gullet in the course of an inverted slaughter. The Gemara asks: If so, with regard to the clause in the mishna that follows: And any of them who slaughtered an animal and others see and supervise them, their slaughter is valid, to which case in the mishna is it referring? If we say that the reference is to the case of a deaf-mute, an imbecile, and a minor, since that is the halakha to which it stands adjacent, the tanna should have formulated the phrase: And if they slaughtered, instead of: And any of them who slaughtered.

אלא אישראל מומר אי דבדק סכין ונותן לו הא אמרת שוחט לכתחלה אלא דלא בדק אי דאיתיה לסכין ליבדקיה השתא ואי דליתיה לסכין כי אחרים רואין אותו מאי הוי דלמא בסכין פגומה שחיט קשיא

Rather, perhaps the reference is to the case of a Jewish transgressor who slaughters. The Gemara asks: In what case? If it is a case where one examined a knife and gave it to the transgressor, didn’t you say in that case that the transgressor may slaughter ab initio? Rather, perhaps the reference is to a case where one did not examine the knife. If it is a case where the knife is available, let him examine the knife now to make sure that there are no nicks. And if it is a case where the knife is not available, then when others see him slaughter, what of it? How can one eat from what he slaughtered? Perhaps he slaughtered the animal with a notched knife. The Gemara concedes that the formulation of the mishna: And any of them who slaughtered, is difficult according to this explanation of the mishna.

רבינא אמר הכי קתני הכל שוחטין הכל מומחין שוחטין מומחין ואע"פ שאין מוחזקין

§ Ravina said in resolution of the apparent contradiction in the mishna that this is what the mishna is teaching: Everyone slaughters, i.e., everyone who is an expert in the halakhot of ritual slaughter slaughters; all experts are qualified to slaughter, and this is the halakha even if they are not established as accustomed to slaughter with a steady hand and without fainting.

בד"א שיודעין בו שיודע לומר הלכות שחיטה אבל אין יודעין בו שיודע לומר הלכות שחיטה לא ישחוט ואם שחט בודקין אותו אם יודע לומר הלכות שחיטה מותר לאכול משחיטתו ואם לאו אסור לאכול משחיטתו

In what case is this statement said? It is said in a case where people know about him that he knows and is able to recite the halakhot of ritual slaughter. But if people do not know about him that he knows and is able to recite the halakhot of ritual slaughter, he may not slaughter an animal ab initio. And if he slaughtered an animal, one examines him; if he knows and is able to recite the halakhot of ritual slaughter it is permitted to eat meat from what he slaughtered, and if not, it is prohibited to eat from what he slaughtered.

חוץ מחרש שוטה וקטן דאפילו דיעבד נמי לא שמא ישהו שמא ידרסו ושמא יחלידו וכולן ששחטו אהייא אילימא אחרש שוטה וקטן עלה קאי ואם שחטו מבעי ליה

And it teaches: This is the halakha with regard to all people except for a deaf-mute, an imbecile, and a minor, whose slaughter is not valid even after the fact. The reason the Sages deemed such slaughter not valid is lest people in these categories interrupt the slaughter, lest they press the knife in the course of slaughter, and lest they conceal the knife beneath the windpipe or the gullet in the course of an inverted slaughter. The Gemara asks: If so, with regard to the clause in the mishna that follows: And any of them who slaughtered an animal and others see and supervise them, their slaughter is valid, to which case in the mishna is this referring? If we say that the reference is to the case of a deaf-mute, an imbecile, and a minor, since that is the halakha to which it stands adjacent, the tanna should have formulated the phrase: And if they slaughtered, instead of: And any of them who slaughtered.

אלא אשאין מומחין בבודקין אותו סגי דליתיה לקמן דליבדקיה

Rather, perhaps the reference is to a case where they are not experts. The Gemara rejects the possibility that they are not experts, as in that case, if one examines him after the slaughter to determine his expertise in the halakhot of ritual slaughter, it is sufficient. The Gemara answers: Supervision is necessary in the case where the one who slaughtered the animal is not before us so that we can examine him.

ואיכא דאמרי רבינא אמר הכי קתני הכל שוחטין הכל מוחזקין שוחטין מוחזקין אע"פ שאין מומחין בד"א ששחטו לפנינו ב' וג' פעמים ולא נתעלף אבל לא שחט לפנינו ב' וג' פעמים לא ישחוט שמא יתעלף ואם שחט ואמר ברי לי שלא נתעלפתי שחיטתו כשרה

And there are those who say that Ravina said that this is what the mishna is teaching: Everyone slaughters, i.e., everyone who is established as accustomed to slaughter with a steady hand and without fainting slaughters; all those established concerning this are qualified to slaughter, even if it is not known if they are experts. In what case is this statement said? It is said in a case where they slaughtered before us two or three times and did not faint. But if he did not slaughter before us two or three times he may not slaughter an animal ab initio, lest he faint. And if he slaughtered an animal and said: It is clear to me that I did not faint, his slaughter is valid.

חוץ מחרש שוטה וקטן דאפילו דיעבד נמי לא שמא ישהו שמא ידרסו ושמא יחלידו וכולן ששחטו אהייא אילימא אחרש שוטה וקטן עלה קאי ואם שחטו מיבעי ליה

And it teaches: This is the halakha with regard to all people except for a deaf-mute, an imbecile, and a minor, whose slaughter is not valid even after the fact. The reason the Sages deemed such slaughter not valid is lest people in these categories interrupt the slaughter, lest they press the knife in the course of slaughter, and lest they conceal the knife beneath the windpipe or the gullet in the course of an inverted slaughter. The Gemara asks: If so, with regard to the clause in the mishna that follows: And any of them who slaughtered an animal and others see and supervise them, their slaughter is valid, to which case in the mishna is this referring? If we say that the reference is to the case of a deaf-mute, an imbecile, and a minor, since that is the halakha to which it stands adjacent, the tanna should have formulated the phrase: And if they slaughtered, instead of: And any of them who slaughtered.

אלא אשאין מוחזקין והאמרת בברי לי סגי דליתיה קמן דלישייליה

Rather, perhaps the reference is to a case where they are not established as accustomed to slaughter with a steady hand and without fainting. The Gemara rejects that possibility, as in that case, didn’t you say that if one said after the slaughter: It is clear to me that I did not faint, it is sufficient? The Gemara answers: Supervision is necessary in the case where the one who slaughtered the animal is not before us so that we can ask him whether he fainted.

רבינא ורבה בר עולא כאביי ורבא ורב אשי לא אמרי משום דקשיא להו וכולן

The Gemara summarizes: Ravina and Rabba bar Ulla did not say a resolution to the apparent contradiction in the mishna like that of Abaye, Rava, and Rav Ashi due to the fact that the phrase in the mishna: And any of them who slaughtered, is difficult for them.

כולהו כרבה בר עולא לא אמרי להך לישנא דאמרת הכא עיקר אדרבה התם עיקר דבקדשים קאי

All of the other amora’im did not say a resolution to the apparent contradiction in the mishna like that of Rabba bar Ulla, who interprets the mishna as referring to the case of a ritually impure person; according to that version that you said: The mishna here is the primary source for the halakha of a ritually impure person who slaughtered a sacrificial animal, the other amora’im reject this interpretation because, on the contrary, the mishna there is the primary source, as it is standing in tractate Zevaḥim, which deals with sacrificial animals.

להך לישנא דאמרת התם עיקר והכא איידי דתנא טמא בחולין תנא נמי טמא במוקדשין טמא בחולין גופיה לא איצטריכא ליה חולין שנעשו על טהרת קדש לאו כקדש דמו

The amora’im also reject the interpretation according to that other version that you said: The mishna there is the primary source, and here, since the tanna taught the case of a ritually impure person who slaughtered non-sacred animals, he teaches the case of a ritually impure person who slaughtered sacrificial animals as well. The reason is that it was not necessary for the tanna to teach the case itself of a ritually impure person who slaughtered a non-sacred animal, as in the opinion of the other amora’im, the halakhic status of non-sacred foods that were prepared according to the strictures of sacrificial food is not like that of sacrificial food, and it is permitted to render such food impure.

כולהו כרבינא לא אמרי להך לישנא דאמר מומחין אין שאין מומחין לא רוב מצויין אצל שחיטה מומחין הן

All of the other amora’im did not say a resolution to the apparent contradiction in the mishna like that of Ravina; according to that version that he said: Experts, yes, may slaughter ab initio, but those that it is not known that they are experts, no, they may not slaughter ab initio, the other amora’im disagree because they hold that the majority of those associated with slaughter are experts. Therefore, even if it is not known whether they are experts, their slaughter is valid.

להך לישנא דאמר מוחזקין אין שאין מוחזקין לא לעלופי לא חיישינן

According to that version that Ravina said: People who are established as accustomed to slaughter without fainting, yes, they may slaughter ab initio, but people who are not established as accustomed to slaughter without fainting, no, they may not slaughter ab initio, the other amora’im disagree because they hold that we are not concerned for the possibility of fainting.

רבא לא אמר כאביי כי קושייה אביי לא אמר כרבא התם לא נגע הכא נגע

Rava did not say a resolution like that of Abaye, that the mishna is referring to a Samaritan, in accordance with the difficulty that he raised from the halakha of wine belonging to a Jew to which a gentile has access. Abaye did not say a resolution like that of Rava, that a Samaritan may slaughter ab initio if a Jew enters and exits, because there, in the case of wine, the gentile does not touch the wine; therefore, it is sufficient if the Jew enters and exits. Here, in the case of slaughter, the Samaritan touches the animal in the course of slaughter, and he can disqualify the slaughter in an instant. Therefore, Abaye holds that it is insufficient for a Jew to enter and exit.

רב אשי לא אמר כתרוייהו קסבר כותים גרי אריות הן

Rav Ashi did not say a resolution like that of both of them, Abaye and Rava, because he holds: Samaritans are converts who converted under duress due to the threat posed by lions, and their conversion is void; therefore, their halakhic status is that of a gentile, whose slaughter is not valid.

אביי לא אמר כרב אשי לא סבירא ליה הא דרבא אלא רבא מאי טעמא לא אמר כשמעתיה

Abaye did not say a resolution like that of Rav Ashi, who interprets the mishna as referring to a Jewish transgressor whose transgression is that he eats unslaughtered animal carcasses to satisfy his appetite, because he does not hold that which Rava said, that such a transgressor may slaughter ab initio if his knife is examined beforehand by someone reliable. But as for Rava, what is the reason that he did not say a resolution in accordance with his own statement of halakha with regard to the slaughter of a transgressor and explain the mishna in the manner that Rav Ashi did?

לדבריו דאביי קאמר וליה לא סבירא ליה:

The Gemara answers: When Rava explained that the tanna in the mishna is referring to the slaughter of a Samaritan, he stated his opinion in accordance with the statement of Abaye in order to resolve the difficulty that Abaye raised; but he himself does not hold accordingly.

תנו רבנן שחיטת כותי מותרת במה דברים אמורים כשישראל עומד על גביו אבל בא ומצאו ששחט חותך כזית ונותן לו אכלו מותר לאכול משחיטתו ואם לאו אסור לאכול משחיטתו

§ The Sages taught in a baraita: The slaughter performed by a Samaritan is permitted ab initio. In what case is this statement said? It is said in a case where there is a Jew standing over him and supervising to ensure that the slaughter was performed properly. But if the Jew came and found that the Samaritan already slaughtered the animal, the Jew cuts an olive-bulk of meat from the slaughtered animal and gives it to the Samaritan to eat. If the Samaritan ate it, it is permitted for the Jew to eat meat from what the Samaritan slaughtered. But if the Samaritan did not eat the meat, it is prohibited to eat from what the Samaritan slaughtered.

כיוצא בו מצא בידו

Similarly, if the Jew found in the possession of a Samaritan