Avodah Zarah 75aעבודה זרה ע״ה א
The William Davidson Talmudתלמוד מהדורת ויליאם דוידסון
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75aע״ה א

רב אמר במים והוא הדין לאפר רבה בר בר חנה אמר לאפר והוא הדין למים ולא פליגי הא ברטיבתא הא ביבשתא

Rav says: One must cleanse it with water first, and the same must be done with ashes subsequently, and Rabba bar bar Ḥana says: One must cleanse it with ashes first, and the same must be done with water subsequently. The Gemara comments: And they do not disagree. This statement, that it must be cleansed first with ashes and subsequently with water, was stated with regard to a damp winepress. That statement, that first it must be moistened with water and then cleansed with ashes, was stated with regard to a dry winepress.

איתמר בי רב משמיה דרב אמרי תרתי תלת ושמואל אמר תלת ד'

A dispute was stated with regard to this matter: The Sages of the school of Rav say in the name of Rav that the cleansing process consists of two stages for a damp winepress, namely, ashes and water, and three stages for a dry winepress, namely, water, ashes, and water. And Shmuel says that it consists of three stages for a damp winepress, namely, ashes, water, and ashes, and four stages for a dry winepress, namely, water, ashes, water, and ashes.

בסורא מתנו הכי בפומבדיתא מתנו בי רב אמרי משמיה דרב תלת ד' ושמואל אמר ד' ה'

In Sura they taught the dispute in this preceding manner, but in Pumbedita they taught it in the following manner: The Sages of the school of Rav said in the name of Rav that the cleansing process consists of three stages for a damp winepress, namely, ashes, water, and ashes, and four stages for a dry winepress, namely, water, ashes, water, and ashes. And Shmuel says that it consists of four stages for a damp winepress, namely, ashes, water, ashes, and water, and five stages for a dry winepress, namely, water, ashes, water, ashes, and water.

ולא פליגי מר קא חשיב מיא בתראי ומר לא קחשיב מיא בתראי

The Gemara comments with regard to the latter version of the dispute: And they do not actually disagree. One Sage, Shmuel, counts the last rinsing with water, which is only in order to remove the ashes, and the other Sage, Rav, does not count the last rinsing with water. Therefore Rav counts three and four stages, whereas Shmuel counts four and five.

בעו מיניה מרבי אבהו הני גורגי דארמאי מאי

§ The students asked Rabbi Abbahu with regard to a similar issue of cleansing a utensil from wine of gentiles: With regard to those wicker nets [gorgei] used to hold the grapes during the treading, which belong to gentiles, what is the way to cleanse them?

א"ל רבי אבהו תניתוה הרי שהיו גתיו ובית בדיו טמאין ובקש לעשותן בטהרה הדפין והעדשין והלולבין מדיחן והעקלין של נצרין ושל בצבוץ מנגבן ושל שיפה ושל גמי מישנן י"ב חדש רשב"ג אומר מניחן מגת לגת ומבד לבד

Rabbi Abbahu said to them: You learned this in a baraita: In the case of one whose winepresses or olive presses were impure, and he wished to prepare his grapes and olives in a state of purity, he must first cleanse the presses from the impure produce for which they were used. He must rinse the planks used as a frame in the winepress, and the troughs, and the twigs used as brooms in the winepress; and he must cleanse the pressing baskets with ashes and water if they were made of palm leaves or of hemp [bitzbutz], or leave them dormant twelve months if they were made of bulrush or of reeds, because these absorb more of the wine. Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel says: He may leave them dormant from one wine-pressing season to the next wine-pressing season, or from one olive-pressing season to the next olive-pressing season.

היינו תנא קמא איכא בינייהו חורפי ואפלי

The Gemara interjects: Isn’t this opinion of Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel the same as that of the first tanna, as twelve months pass from one wine-pressing season to the next? The Gemara responds: The difference between them is with regard to early-ripening grapes and late-ripening grapes. Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel does not require a precise measure of twelve months, as the lapse between ripening seasons may be greater or less.

ר' יוסי אומר הרוצה לטהרן מיד מגעילן ברותחין או חולטן במי זיתים רשב"ג משום ר' יוסי אומר מניחן תחת צינור שמימיו מקלחין או במעין שמימיו רודפין וכמה עונה

The baraita continues: Rabbi Yosei says: One who wishes to purify the winepress or olive press immediately without waiting a year can purge them by pouring boiling water over them, or scald them in water used for cooking olives. Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel says in the name of Rabbi Yosei: He can place them under a pipe whose water flows constantly or in a spring with rapid waters. And for how long should he leave them there? He should leave them for an interval of time, as the Gemara will explain.

כדרך שאמרו ביין נסך כך אמרו בטהרות

The baraita adds: In the same way that the Sages stated these cleansing instructions with regard to a winepress used for libation wine, so they stated these instructions with regard to matters of purity.

כלפי לייא בטהרות קיימינן אלא כדרך שאמרו בטהרות כך אמרו ביין נסך

The Gemara asks with regard to this last clause: Isn’t it the opposite? We are dealing in this baraita with matters of purity, not with the matter of wine used for a libation. Rather, the baraita should be emended: In the same way that the Sages stated this with regard to matters of purity, so they stated this with regard to libation wine.

כמה עונה אמר רבי חייא בר אבא א"ר יוחנן או יום או לילה ר' חנא שאינה ואמרי לה ר' חנא בר שאינה אמר רבה בר בר חנה א"ר יוחנן חצי יום וחצי לילה

The Gemara asks: How long is an interval of time? Rabbi Ḥiyya bar Abba says that Rabbi Yoḥanan says: It is either an entire day or an entire night. Rabbi Ḥana Sha’ina, and some say Rabbi Ḥana bar Sha’ina, says that Rabba bar bar Ḥana says that Rabbi Yoḥanan says: It is half a day and half a night.

א"ר שמואל בר יצחק ולא פליגי הא בתקופת ניסן ותשרי הא בתקופת תמוז וטבת

Rabbi Shmuel bar Yitzḥak says: And they do not disagree. This statement, that it is either a day or a night, is referring to the season of Nisan or Tishrei, i.e., the fall or spring, when the day and the night are of equal length, and that statement, that it is half a day and half a night, is referring to the season of Tammuz or Tevet, i.e., the summer or winter, when they are not equal, and so twelve hours are measured by half the day and half the night.

אמר רבי יהודה הני רווקי דארמאי דמזיא מדיחן דעמרא מנגבן דכיתנא מישנן ואי איכא קטרי שרי להו הני דקולי וחלאתא דארמאי דחיטי בחבלי דצורי מדיחן

§ Rav Yehuda says: In order to cleanse those gentiles’ straining bags [ravukei], which are used for straining yeast from wine, with regard to those made of hair, which is not absorbent, one may rinse them. With regard to those made of wool, one must cleanse them with ashes and water. With regard to those made of flax, which is more absorbent, one must leave them dormant. And if there are knots, one must undo them. In order to cleanse those gentiles’ baskets and strainers, with regard to those that are plaited from palm strips, one may rinse them.